Who is Responsible for Murdering over 40 Million people?

[RunningOnEmpty]

Quote from version77:

If a woman wants to make the decision to put a hanger up her
baby maker and kill it and it harms herself then fine.

Maybe it's nature's way of telling her she is trying to commit murder.

What a lot of compassion you have. Too bad it's only for the fetus (potential) and not the woman (actuality).

Try taking an actual cue from nature. If a pregnant animal/human is stressed sufficiently, the embryo/fetus is spontaneously aborted. In other words, when push comes to shove, nature favors the proven and viable parent, not the potential, the 'may be' offspring.

Most women would tell you to try carrying a watermelon in your gut for nine months, and then shit it out of your ass before you tell them they have to do the equivalent, or weigh in on the abortion issue at all. At least, they'd want to hear from someone with a more sophisticated understanding of reproduction and the issues surrounding it...so, I'd guess from someone who doesn't use childish, prudish or evasive terms such as "baby maker".

 

[progers82]

Quote from riserburn:



Before any of you give this crap about adoption being an answer to the problem, I'd like to know how many of you "outraged" people have adopted children from such circumstances.

this is an impossible argument as people are so convinced on both sides that they are right. but since riseburn made the challenge im going to respond.

I am a father of 5 children. 4 boys and 1 girl. 4 out of the 5 of my children are adopted. all but one of the children are first borns and have three biological mothers and 4 fathers. after we had the 4 adopted children for 7 years, for some miraculous reason, my wife got pregnant and we had our 5th child.
its the proper thing to do. give the child life and let someone who really want to raise the child, raise it and the child will do amazing things. aborted, it accomplishes NOTHING.
pat

 

[Rearden Metal]

It may be rude to mention this, but that hasn't stopped me in the past:
There is a perception that expectant mothers of African-American ethnicity have a <b>significantly more difficult</b> time finding acceptable adoptive parents for their unwanted babies than everyone else. It this true?

 

[progers82]

it is the political process that is preventing black babies from being adopted by different race parents. there are thousands of white couples that would adopt black or other race babies. they are standing in line.
I know 100's of adopated kids who have became very sucessful at life. they just need a chance.

 

[jzlucas]

Quote from version77:

Let me tell you a story about abortion. When my girlfriend (now my wife)
first got pregnant the doctors at the University of Washington told
us our unborn child had 3 brain tumors so we should abort it and
give it to them so they could "experiment" on it to see why it had
these brain tumors. They told us the child would be "retarded" and
have a terrible like after being born.

We told them no way are we going to kill the unborn child.

Two months later they told us that "miracuously" the brain tumors
had just "dissapeared" and the baby was going to be born normal.

As some might know, the UW is a teaching hospital.

I think they just wanted the fetus so they could "experiment" on it.

Today this so-called brain tumor filled child is a normal, beautiful,
intelligent 13 year old girl with no brain tumors.

Shame on those who think abortion is the answer to every pregnancy
that comes along.

I wonder how many couples have been tricked by this ploy by
the University of Washington medical staff. And others across the
nation and world.

Great story, version. It's nice to see a positve outcome out of this thread.

 

[jzlucas]

Touchy subject, I can see both sides of the debate. What I don't reason with is the libs who scream and yell over convicted killers being painlessly put to sleep (poor guys) yet applause the terminations of the innocent unborn. On the other side, if I was in office, I'd keep it legal. Less unwanted humans, less crime. I probably upset both sides this time.

 

[Pabst]

It sounds as if you and your wife are living proof that God's work can be done on this Earth. Bless you both!

Quote from progers82:

Quote from riserburn:



Before any of you give this crap about adoption being an answer to the problem, I'd like to know how many of you "outraged" people have adopted children from such circumstances.

this is an impossible argument as people are so convinced on both sides that they are right. but since riseburn made the challenge im going to respond.

I am a father of 5 children. 4 boys and 1 girl. 4 out of the 5 of my children are adopted. all but one of the children are first borns and have three biological mothers and 4 fathers. after we had the 4 adopted children for 7 years, for some miraculous reason, my wife got pregnant and we had our 5th child.
its the proper thing to do. give the child life and let someone who really want to raise the child, raise it and the child will do amazing things. aborted, it accomplishes NOTHING.
pat

 

[riserburn]

Quote from progers82:

I am a father of 5 children. 4 boys and 1 girl. 4 out of the 5 of my children are adopted. all but one of the children are first borns and have three biological mothers and 4 fathers. after we had the 4 adopted children for 7 years, for some miraculous reason, my wife got pregnant and we had our 5th child.
its the proper thing to do. give the child life and let someone who really want to raise the child, raise it and the child will do amazing things. aborted, it accomplishes NOTHING.
pat [/B]

Now thats commendable. I am more inclined to believe that you actually have the interest of a child in mind when you talk about abortion from a pro-life stance. However, I still disagree with you if you truely believe that adoption is a solution.

First of all, the statistics just don't show that that many people are interested:
http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/s_seek.cfm
If you can find 40+ million people like yourself in a 20 year time span that are actually willing to go through with it, you might have an arguement.

Second of all, it still doesn't take the mother into account. While there are indeed questionable reasons why a woman would want an abortion, there are still enough circumstances that warrant giving those that are in a dire situation the right to make the choice. Its her body and her conscience. She's got to live with it; not you or anybody else.

This is no different than the Terry Shiavo situation IMHO. The day the government can intervene and takes the right of that decision from you or your family is the day your body no longer belongs to you.

 

[Pabst]

Quote from riserburn:


This is no different than the Terry Shiavo situation IMHO. The day the government can intervene and takes the right of that decision from you or your family is the day your body no longer belongs to you.

Does a prostitute have ultimate legal control of her body? Or a drug user? Or a nude sunbather?

 

[riserburn]

Apples and oranges.

Does a prostitute have ultimate legal control of her body?

Yes; she/he can choose not to prostitute. The laws governing the body aren't the issue. The use of the body to make money in exchange for sex is the issue. Therefore, its not a criminal issue of the body, but how one profits from the body.

Or a drug user?

Yes; you can't be prosecuted for abusing your body by using drugs. You can only be prosecuted for possessing drugs.

Or a nude sunbather?

Yes; you can choose to keep your clothes on. If you choose to take them off on private property, away from prudes that are so incessed and embarrassed about someone else's body, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. Once again, the issue is not the body, but the cultural stigma surrounding the issues of a naked body by those that say they are insulted about seeing a naked one.

All these are classic interjections of other issues about the human body that have nothing to do with the fate of one's own body; just someone else's moral perception of whats going on with someone else's body.