who is liable for a loss due to a software problem ?

[Arnie]

I Wonder who the one yes vote is.

 

[Tranbo]

Trader Bear It All.

-Broker: Take comission -- U bear Risk
-Your Risk Officer: Get Paid & You bear risk
-Data Provider: Paid in Full but You bear Risk
-Software Company: Subscription fee -- U bear risk ...Again!

STOP TRADING!!!...and They All Bear Risk!

 

[Rabbitone]

Quote from SnakeEYE:

What is the most reliable and stable software out there?How do you think?

I don’t rate any of retail software platform providers above average in reliability and stability. The majority of them are trying to pour out new features faster than their developers can debug them. Many are forced to rewrite features after a multitude of customer complaints. A few software developers like Ninja trader and MultiCharts have had a better than average record of addressing customer complaints with reliability and stability (but it does not mean I endorse their platforms).

Retail traders have filled ET threads about bad price data, communication break downs, poor performing API’s, bad developer language performance, lack of developmental tools, security issues, bad platform documentation, language extensions that are non-performing, suitability for trading particular financial instruments, poor trade execution (such as missed trades and partial fills) of language order extensions, data feed problems and my list goes on and on.

Addressing the ills of this retail trading industry would take a long “white paper”. Now you know one reason why Retail software providers disclaimers are so lengthy.

 

[the1]

Or incompetence. To prove that you'd have to have access to the code and that's not going to happen. I'd suggest the OP just switch brokers or platforms if the software is causing problems.

Quote from LeeD:

I agree with other posters. The only way you can nail down software or datafeed vendors is if you can prove a clear malice (or, perhaps, misselling) on their part. Otherwise, they are normally pretty much covered.

 

[the1]

I had nothing but problems with Comcast when I first got them. They seemed to go down about once per week. I upgraded to a business account rather than a home account and the service improved. When they go down businesses are first on the list to get restored. I have three different internet connections to avoid the possibility of losing a connection.

My biggest risk is when I lose connection to my broker on the brokers end. To help avoid that problem I am connected to multiple servers at the brokers office. You have to ask for this. Otherwise, they will just put you on one server. It's rare that multiple servers go down all at once.

Technology failures are a risk that comes with trading. The best you can do is develop plan B and plan C to deal with it when it happens because it will happen.

Quote from Went Fishing:

Do I agree...... software, data feed and exchanges are liable ? If I did I couldn't trade, because, as mentioned it's all in the "agreements." Add ISPs to the list I had that issue today and pulled the plug on my trading in disgust. However, when I walked out my door fuming, there stood the "comcast man" wanting to sell me an upgrade on my cable service. Needless to say he caught raw edge of my wrath! FYI, he had a paper showing me I could get 105 Mb/s download speeds ...... 30 seconds before I walked out my door I did a speed test and my speed was .44 YES .44Mb/s. I was not kind, but I did tell him I'd pay double if he could guarantee me HALF that speed 24/7 ..... of course he couldn't.

 

[the1]

I'm guessing it's AMTD. I had problems with them on stop loss orders. If a spike occurred on the chart and the market didn't actually trade there I was getting taken out of the trade. I called them and they made good and gave me a number of commission free trades. It kept happening so I switched to IB. I only keep a small amount of money in AMTD these days for long term holds where I don't use stops. I diversify instead.

Quote from abattia:

I have had such problems three times over the last 3 years, and my broker has always refunded what I was claiming for. [Don't ask me to name the broker ... I won't.] In my case, I think the key has been that the amounts I was claiming were small relative to the commission income I generate for the broker. All were related to stop loss orders not being executed at (or even near) the correct price. Also, in each case I could show that I had submitted the stop loss order at such and such a time, and that the order had not been executed when it should have been, and hence my loss.

If you really want to roll your sleeves up, your broker agreement should contain a clause that lays out the process for dispute resolution. As is true in lots of areas of business (not just trading, and brokering), if you show a clear willingness to push your counterparty into having to resolve the matter with you by that route, they may decide the expense and hassle are not worth it relative to what you are claiming, and cave in ...

 

[the1]

I use Strategy Runner for trading futures. All I really need is a buy and a sell button with 1/2 way decent charts. The platform has been rock solid during chaos, such as surprise Fed announcements. I also have an account with TradeStation because the platform has decent analytics along with their Easy Language but in a fast, chaotic market the platform almost always freezes. I just take my 10 trades per month to get the platform for free. Not a bad deal.

Quote from SnakeEYE:

What is the most reliable and stable software out there?How do you think?

 

[seneca_roman]

"Except as expressly provided otherwise in an agreement between you and TradeStation Securities, all products, services, information, software and system performance offered or provided in this site are offered and/or provided “as is” without warranty of any kind, either express or implied, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular use or purpose.

You use this site and all TradeStation Securities (and affiliated) products and services at your own risk. In no event shall TradeStation Securities be liable for any special, incidental, indirect or consequential damages of any kind, or any financial losses or damages whatever, including, without limitation, those resulting from loss of (or errors in) service, software or data, whether or not we have been advised of the possibility of such damages, and regardless of the theory of liability. This site, as well as TradeStation Securities' order execution systems and services, could, and likely do, include some technical and other inaccuracies and errors. In addition, changes are periodically made to the information on this site without advance notice of any kind. TradeStation Securities may also make (or accept from the applicable vendors or providers) improvements and/or changes in the products, services and programs described in this site at any time without advance notice of any kind."

Typical software disclaimer.

Seneca

 

[Wallace]

great posts guys - gals

the thread originated because one, AMP/NinjaTrader/CQG trader on Big Mike's forum
posted he'd lost 10 NQ points because of a disconnection problem
AMP wouldn't refund him but it was a CQG problem - the disconnect would alarm with
NT then re-connect all within a second and repeat every half hour or so, this had
been an ongoing problem for a week or so and was finally resolved by CQG after the
close of trading last weekend
funny nobody posted the problem here on ET, and the guy who lost didn't reply to my
asking if he'd contacted CQG about a refund

yes, I realize the software authors and data feed providers waiver themselves out of
even acknowledging they had a mother, and that it would anyway be financially fruitless
to sue for a few hundreds or thousands of dollars loss when legal costs would be so
much greater, but

remember the 'Flash Crash', didn't the exchanges wash all or some losing trades even
though it wasn't a software etc problem, but a legitimate Large vol trade that caused
the crash ?
point being the exchanges did something so traders recovered some or all of their
losses, why shouldn't They also do the same, They're Being Paid for a product/service

while there are some good guy brokers who resolve problems to clients' satisfaction
I think the responsibility IS on software authors and datafeed providers, that They Are liable

although many traders experience the inconvenience of their ISP or data feed going
down or trading platform having a problem, it appears there's far fewer traders than I
thought who've had trading losses due to software/data feed problems
guess that's Their let-off, were more traders losing due to software problems They'd
take responsibility, legal mumbo jumbo aside

 

[justrading]

Quote from Wallace:



posted he'd lost 10 NQ points because of a disconnection problem
AMP wouldn't refund him but it was a CQG problem - the disconnect would alarm with
NT then re-connect all within a second and repeat every half hour or so, this had
been an ongoing problem for a week or so and was finally resolved by CQG after the
close of trading last weekend

I'm on NT/Rithmic and for the last 2 days I have had 1 instance each of "Connection Lost" during RTH, also very brief. Strangely, the charts and DOM were still active, so not sure what exactly is going on.

Happily, no open positions at those times. I do keep the Broker's dealing desk hotline number handy, so that in the event of a disconnect, I can get the position closed.