yup, exactly the same with the house at the casino. They don't worry anout the outliers because they know that they have probabilities in their favor and it's repeated exactly the same over and over. After "x" time they're always going to be ahead. Start with a basic entry strategy that is reliable and consistent and take it from there.
Who has made it back from the bottom?
- Thread starter EEUT84
- Start date
EEUT84,
I've been right there where you are. You <b>can</b> prosper once again, in a CONTROLLED manner.
Your admission that you've flopped is a big step in the right direction. At this point you need introspection and discipline - which, as your account grew and grew, I suspect there was very little of either one - everything you touched turned to gold.
You need to immediately abandon any effort to quickly get back to where you were intially, because doing so will more likely than not cause you to lose the remainder of what you have.
Every dollar you make now is a "free" dollar, because it is free of tax (since it offsets your large losses), and "free" because it's a new learning experience.
Don't lose heart, try new things, and most of all, maintain a level of discipline regarding your trades. You'll get back to where you were, but take time to do so - for your financial and mental sake.
My best wishes.
I've been right there where you are. You <b>can</b> prosper once again, in a CONTROLLED manner.
Your admission that you've flopped is a big step in the right direction. At this point you need introspection and discipline - which, as your account grew and grew, I suspect there was very little of either one - everything you touched turned to gold.
You need to immediately abandon any effort to quickly get back to where you were intially, because doing so will more likely than not cause you to lose the remainder of what you have.
Every dollar you make now is a "free" dollar, because it is free of tax (since it offsets your large losses), and "free" because it's a new learning experience.
Don't lose heart, try new things, and most of all, maintain a level of discipline regarding your trades. You'll get back to where you were, but take time to do so - for your financial and mental sake.
My best wishes.
I have, several times. Like pretty much everyone in this game I have fully blown out a few times and faced many severe drawdowns since I started trading. I do take less risk now and I have learned a few lessons so my drawdowns are now usually a bit less painfull. But still, I am well aware that the most unexpected can happen the next second. And then the day, the week or the month can end up in an account bloodbath. Of course it's always when you think you're over the hump that shit hits the fan. So, here I came with this plan a few yrs ago - I still use it at some extent when one of my setups goes into a longer/larger than usual drawdown. It is stupid simple but it did save me a lot of money doing the wrong things when I felt some heat and lost faith or when I was at the bottom thinking trading was over for me.
So if you read the steps below and it makes sense to you, I suggest you tell the trader that has been lacking discipline to STFU, close the trading platform and let the Reason speak. You said you still have some capital left, so it's not over. Consider yourself lucky, take the time that is necessary to go through the steps with an absolute objectivity. Don't do it and you'll back here sooner than you think. With less money in your account.
Good luck.
1. Stop Trading
2. Identify the Issues that caused the drawdown:
/ A. Vanishing Edge due to change in Volatility, Volume, Price Behavior, Market Structure, ... -> 3.
/ B. Emotional issues: fear, overconfidence, impatience, recklessness, ... -> 4.
3. Fix the strategy or Wait until favorable conditions are back or Build a new strategy/edge -> 5.
4. Fix the root cause: work out a money management strategy that fits my personality, set up a daily max number of trades, change my expectations/money goals, decrease overheads/expenses, get a job to build a stake, etc -> 5.
5. Resume Trading with Small Size
6. Equity runs back up -> 8.
7. Equity's drawdown continues -> 1.
8. Resume Trading with Normal Size
So if you read the steps below and it makes sense to you, I suggest you tell the trader that has been lacking discipline to STFU, close the trading platform and let the Reason speak. You said you still have some capital left, so it's not over. Consider yourself lucky, take the time that is necessary to go through the steps with an absolute objectivity. Don't do it and you'll back here sooner than you think. With less money in your account.
Good luck.
1. Stop Trading
2. Identify the Issues that caused the drawdown:
/ A. Vanishing Edge due to change in Volatility, Volume, Price Behavior, Market Structure, ... -> 3.
/ B. Emotional issues: fear, overconfidence, impatience, recklessness, ... -> 4.
3. Fix the strategy or Wait until favorable conditions are back or Build a new strategy/edge -> 5.
4. Fix the root cause: work out a money management strategy that fits my personality, set up a daily max number of trades, change my expectations/money goals, decrease overheads/expenses, get a job to build a stake, etc -> 5.
5. Resume Trading with Small Size
6. Equity runs back up -> 8.
7. Equity's drawdown continues -> 1.
8. Resume Trading with Normal Size
take a break and review all your trades, see what works, what doesn't.
score future trades based on setup, trigger, exit.
trade small.
confidence is a byproduct of success, not a precursor.
score future trades based on setup, trigger, exit.
trade small.
confidence is a byproduct of success, not a precursor.
Small size and small wins will instill the confidence.
Do not look at what you had and look at what you have.
I know it is tuf to tone down the size and constantly think how much you would have made.
Believe me I have made this mistake only to realize that my only edge is my Capital and survival is the key.
If possible, while you trade avoid looking at your P/L. Use software (forced) stops. especially Daily Loss.
Try to sit on you hands on days Futures show little momentum or rather not trade. trade only on trending days like today.
You have to remind your self is that loosing trades is not the measure of some one's skill. You have done it before and you can do it again.
Gud luck.
Do not look at what you had and look at what you have.
I know it is tuf to tone down the size and constantly think how much you would have made.
Believe me I have made this mistake only to realize that my only edge is my Capital and survival is the key.
If possible, while you trade avoid looking at your P/L. Use software (forced) stops. especially Daily Loss.
Try to sit on you hands on days Futures show little momentum or rather not trade. trade only on trending days like today.
You have to remind your self is that loosing trades is not the measure of some one's skill. You have done it before and you can do it again.
Gud luck.
OP,
Hard to get into anotherâs head, even harder to determine what another person is, or is not capable ofâ¦.
Lot of nice folks have responded, offered up several good suggestions too.
So what could I possibly contribute (thinking while Iâm typing)
As I sit here I can only come up with one â some plain ole simple truth
Price is always right
Exit losers soon enough â you save your capital and your ass (you didnât, and havenât been)
Fundamentally the market has not changed since its inception (buying and selling is all there is)
Every tradeâs out come is uncertain
Every trader has losing trades
We never know what price will do next
Ego has no place in trading (most likely at one time you felt you were 10â tall and bullet proof â youâre not/ none of us are)
There is no glory, no meaning, no honor, no morality, no glamour, no higher purpose to trading than;
Protect capital firstâ¦, Make money second
==========================================================================================
And now here you are â youâve been kicked in the balls because you didnât follow these fundamental truths â okayâ¦
Furthermore now you must get your head wrapped around the above, (probably for the first time), change your trading.., and get with the program â where before youâve obviously neglected these small detailsâ¦
I should also add simply thinking you can/ or have got it â will not cut itâ¦.
You must change your behavior â and you must change your actions â and if you do these â then you can reboundâ¦
If you donât â well like I said; here we are â and the bottom is still miles away (donât believe me go ask Livermore â oh I forgot he put a bullet through his head)
==========================================================================================
I suppose at this point I should wish you good luckâ however I do not believe in luck
On the other hand I do see trading, and life, as a journey â seldom is it a straight traverse â it winds hither and yond⦠There are times when the path is smooth, other times it is rough⦠on occasion the path is a dead end or strewn with road blocksâ¦.
Obviously youâve hit a road block/ possibly a dead end â but youâre not dead so you still have an opportunityâ¦
It is time to stop â and either reverse â or move forward â your choice
Should you prefer a more direct tone;
Either get your ass motivated, change your actions, then start at the ground and build back up⦠or not
============================================================================================
Not a very glamorous picture I paint is it â but then Iâm not know for being glamorous â neither is trading for that matter
I wish you a Successful Journey â whichever way you decideâ¦
One other thought â when itâs said and done â youâll absolutely know what youâre made of â trust meâ¦. (interesting how adversity does that to a personâ¦)
And this will truly be the most precious lesson of all
Just some simple truth from a simple minded redneck
RN
Hard to get into anotherâs head, even harder to determine what another person is, or is not capable ofâ¦.
Lot of nice folks have responded, offered up several good suggestions too.
So what could I possibly contribute (thinking while Iâm typing)
As I sit here I can only come up with one â some plain ole simple truth
Price is always right
Exit losers soon enough â you save your capital and your ass (you didnât, and havenât been)
Fundamentally the market has not changed since its inception (buying and selling is all there is)
Every tradeâs out come is uncertain
Every trader has losing trades
We never know what price will do next
Ego has no place in trading (most likely at one time you felt you were 10â tall and bullet proof â youâre not/ none of us are)
There is no glory, no meaning, no honor, no morality, no glamour, no higher purpose to trading than;
Protect capital firstâ¦, Make money second
==========================================================================================
And now here you are â youâve been kicked in the balls because you didnât follow these fundamental truths â okayâ¦
Furthermore now you must get your head wrapped around the above, (probably for the first time), change your trading.., and get with the program â where before youâve obviously neglected these small detailsâ¦
I should also add simply thinking you can/ or have got it â will not cut itâ¦.
You must change your behavior â and you must change your actions â and if you do these â then you can reboundâ¦
If you donât â well like I said; here we are â and the bottom is still miles away (donât believe me go ask Livermore â oh I forgot he put a bullet through his head)
==========================================================================================
I suppose at this point I should wish you good luckâ however I do not believe in luck
On the other hand I do see trading, and life, as a journey â seldom is it a straight traverse â it winds hither and yond⦠There are times when the path is smooth, other times it is rough⦠on occasion the path is a dead end or strewn with road blocksâ¦.
Obviously youâve hit a road block/ possibly a dead end â but youâre not dead so you still have an opportunityâ¦
It is time to stop â and either reverse â or move forward â your choice
Should you prefer a more direct tone;
Either get your ass motivated, change your actions, then start at the ground and build back up⦠or not
============================================================================================
Not a very glamorous picture I paint is it â but then Iâm not know for being glamorous â neither is trading for that matter
I wish you a Successful Journey â whichever way you decideâ¦
One other thought â when itâs said and done â youâll absolutely know what youâre made of â trust meâ¦. (interesting how adversity does that to a personâ¦)
And this will truly be the most precious lesson of all
Just some simple truth from a simple minded redneck
RN
Here's a plan:
1. Make survival your first priority, not making money. Your aim is to last long enough to learn the markets well enough to become good. You can't do that if you blow up. If you survive 2-3 years, you will begin to learn. So, trade small. Also, remember that scared money never wins. If you can't afford to lose anything, stop trading and save up money until you *can* afford to lose something.
2. Always look at the risk and the worst case scenario first, and choose your size so that you never risk big losses. Never choose size based on how much you want to make, or what will happen if the trade works, always base size on how much you are willing to lose and what will happen if things go wrong.
3. Study the markets daily, take notes, review ALL trades and note down errors, learn from them, come up with solutions and checklists to avoid repeating errors. Be a learning machine that is constantly improving.
4. Get a mentor or coach who knows the business. Much faster than learning by yourself, and more motivating and enjoyable. Also helps with risk control - if you had a 2nd opinion, they would have told you to cut your risk and size way before you lost 90%. Going solo is a lot harder.
5. Ask if you really want to be a trader. If trading is really your passion, then 'never give up, never regret, and follow your destiny' (Kostya Tszyu)
1. Make survival your first priority, not making money. Your aim is to last long enough to learn the markets well enough to become good. You can't do that if you blow up. If you survive 2-3 years, you will begin to learn. So, trade small. Also, remember that scared money never wins. If you can't afford to lose anything, stop trading and save up money until you *can* afford to lose something.
2. Always look at the risk and the worst case scenario first, and choose your size so that you never risk big losses. Never choose size based on how much you want to make, or what will happen if the trade works, always base size on how much you are willing to lose and what will happen if things go wrong.
3. Study the markets daily, take notes, review ALL trades and note down errors, learn from them, come up with solutions and checklists to avoid repeating errors. Be a learning machine that is constantly improving.
4. Get a mentor or coach who knows the business. Much faster than learning by yourself, and more motivating and enjoyable. Also helps with risk control - if you had a 2nd opinion, they would have told you to cut your risk and size way before you lost 90%. Going solo is a lot harder.
5. Ask if you really want to be a trader. If trading is really your passion, then 'never give up, never regret, and follow your destiny' (Kostya Tszyu)
P.S. Loss of confidence is a symptom not a cause of failure. It's an indication that you have no reliable method to be confident *in*. Which is exactly the case for most traders early in their career.
Trading confidence is not a personality trait, it is the result of *knowing* via facts and evidence that your method works. Being confident when you don't have a definitely viable method is sheer folly. Losing confidence in that case is eminently sensible - you *should* have no confidence, if you have no method that works.
Trading confidence is not a personality trait, it is the result of *knowing* via facts and evidence that your method works. Being confident when you don't have a definitely viable method is sheer folly. Losing confidence in that case is eminently sensible - you *should* have no confidence, if you have no method that works.