who decides the prices the futures ?

ZZZ · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by Sarasota

I trade Gann, and it flat out amazes me how price turns TO THE TICK of predetermined lines and diagonals I draw. It happens all day long, and has happened today about 5 times already.

LOL. If you draw enough lines with enough methods on enough timeframes you're bound to get something price turns at to the TICK. There is no cause and effect as you might think. In my opinion it is foolish to believe the market behaves in a perfect mathematically precise manner. Trading is not about perfection, it is about managing probabilities.

rtharp · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by Sarasota
Obviously nobody knows on this board, and I am not claiming to have the answer, but I do have a theory. I do know that the locals in the pits that trade the big S&P contract can not significantly move the market by themselves. They don't have that kind of buying power. It takes billions, and sometimes the big boys on Wall Street can't even do it.

So what moves the market? My theory is price moves the market. I am more convinced than ever price is just going to do what it wants. Sure buying and selling as well as economic news can accelerate the moves.

I trade Gann, and it flat out amazes me how price turns TO THE TICK of predetermined lines and diagonals I draw. It happens all day long, and has happened today about 5 times already. This isn't the traditional Gann crap of drawing Gann squares, which incidentally are computed using incorrect math in virtually all charting programs. That is how I pick up 10 ES points a day (actually it is more, but still no one would believe me). I have said this many times before, but you need to have an expectation of where price is headed. If you don't have an expectation, how in the Hell can you trade?

nobody is the market...

it's a combo of everyone combined that moves the market.

buyers are a lot more interested buying that the sellers are for selling ........we go up

seller are a lot more interested is sellng than buyers are willing to buy we go down.

There are funds that can move the market, but short term and everyone would soon bring prices back to normal.

Robert T

rtharp · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ZZZ

LOL. If you draw enough lines with enough methods on enough timeframes you're bound to get something price turns at to the TICK. There is no cause and effect as you might think. In my opinion it is foolish to believe the market behaves in a perfect mathematically precise manner. Trading is not about perfection, it is about managing probabilities.

Long Term Capital.....is a great example

things happen due to supply and demand

Robert

Sarasota · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ZZZ

LOL. If you draw enough lines with enough methods on enough timeframes you're bound to get something price turns at to the TICK. There is no cause and effect as you might think. In my opinion it is foolish to believe the market behaves in a perfect mathematically precise manner. Trading is not about perfection, it is about managing probabilities.

I will be more than happy to send you my charts if you send me a PM with your e-mail address. You can "laugh out loud" all you want, but I am the one who has over 30 ES points today, so maybe I am the one who should be LOL at you!

Just kidding.

In addition, it is not what you might think. I don't have lines drawn all over the place, so your "enough lines" theory is flat out wrong. I do however have strong opinions where we will see swing changes on using 15 and 30 minute time frames, and scale down my entries using a 5 minute time frame. Again, if you don't have an expectation on where price is moving, how in the HELL can you trade?

One other thing. I was fortunate enough to find a mentor who was kind enough to "hold my hand." Before this time I was losing my shirt. I traded a $10,000 account down to $1,500. My mentor is a older guy who knew some of Gann's trading assistants, and after years of careful study, he basically figured this stuff out. The only reason I am saying this is because there are people out there that are "killing it" and hopefully everyone reading this will be fortunate enough to have someone as generous to hold their hand too (that person will not be me).

bungrider · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by rtharp

Long Term Capital.....is a great example

things happen due to supply and demand

Robert

let's not forget the overwhelming effects that fear and greed have on sup and demand.

i know it's cliche, but i see it all the time in myself.

ZZZ · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by Sarasota

I will be more than happy to send you my charts if you send me a PM with your e-mail address. You can "laugh out loud" all you want, but I am the one who has over 30 ES points today, so maybe I am the one who should be LOL at you! Just kidding.

Why not post one chart with your 'lines' here on ET. That would allow people to see these voodoo Gann lines at work

In addition, it is not what you might think. I don't have lines drawn all over the place, so your "enough lines" theory is flat out wrong. I do however have strong opinions where we will see swing changes on using 15 and 30 minute time frames, and scale down my entries using a 5 minute time frame. Again, if you don't have an expectation on where price is moving, how in the HELL can you trade?

More...

I agree with you on your point that you must have an expectation. Some traders derive this expectation from years of experience, some use a mechanical system signal BUT in both cases proper trade management is the key to profitability. Not some secret method of entry that allows you to top tick or bottom pick.

Sarasota · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ZZZ

Why not post one chart with your 'lines' here on ET. That would allow people to see these voodoo Gann lines at work

I agree with you on your point that you must have an expectation. Some traders derive this expectation from years of experience, some use a mechanical system signal BUT in both cases proper trade management is the key to profitability. Not some secret method of entry that allows you to top tick or bottom pick.

Quite simply because some might figure out what I am doing. But since you are such a skeptic, please PM me your e-mail address.

Trader discipline and ability to manage a trade is the most important, but if you can't pick good solid entry and exit points based upon whatever methodology you use, you will just be spinning your wheels.

ZZZ · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by Sarasota

Quite simply because some might figure out what I am doing. But since you are such a skeptic, please PM me your e-mail address.

So you're gonna try to convert me eh?

Sarasota · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ZZZ

So you're gonna try to convert me eh?

That is some funny stuff man. No not necessarily, but I have converted a few people in the past.

Sarasota · Sep 19, 2002

I said in this thread started just over an hour ago that we might see some support in the 848 to 850 area. We did, saw about a 5 point bounce even though it was a counter-trend trade, and it was all based on Gann. I was stopped out with a 2.75 pt gain.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=124357#post124357