ES and SP are fungible at a 5:1 ratio
http://www.cme.com/html.wrap/wrappedpages/end_of_day/daily_settlement_prices/es.html
http://www.cme.com/html.wrap/wrappedpages/end_of_day/daily_settlement_prices/es.html
Who are the "Big Boys" (Traders) in the S&P
- Thread starter TheDr.
- Start date
In terms of a guy that just trades the e-minis and uses the pit squawk there is supposed to be a HUGE trader at Kingstree Trading in Chicago in the S&P e-minis. Other than that you will hear the biggest locals on the S&P squawk, but a lot on headsets using minis so better able to disguise their position these days. Merrill has been closely watched for years on that squawk. Is it Merrill's equity prop desk or some enormous customer?
Merrill has certainly built up a very big program trading prop desk recently(after hiring D'Souza from Morgan). However, knowing some of the Merrill's customers, these could very well be customer business (they have a few huge hedge fund customers), as they do very little arb type of business internally.
When I used to work at CME people used to talk about this young Russian guy named Igor, who is supposedly the biggest e-mini S&P trader in the world. He works out of an office in CBOT and makes millions per year. His name is mentioned with awe, respect, and fear. One pit trader told me that Igor has ruined many people's lives.
Merrill is really active all the time. I think they got a big prop desk, but also some huge clients too. Usually when he´s on the phone he trades for customers.
I know there are some big traders in the minis that trade way over 1000 contracts. But remember that the biggest banks in the pit are also the biggest players in the minis.
And the pit and mini always goes hand in hand. If the minis go down a tick locals will sell in the pit. Or when it´s .20 bid .50 offer in the pit and .25 bid .50 offer in the minis and a bank comes in .50 bid in the pit, the mini will go up to .50 bid. So it´s hard to believe that this Igor guy ruines some trader´s lives. Because usually the locals make money out of arbing pit and mini prices. But you can be right though! There are definately HUGE independant traders in the minis!
-Dave.
As a long time CME member and index trader I have to tell you that some of the comments are a bit off on this thread.
The squawk services available commercially are marginal at best. The discusssion about Lewis Borsellino is funny because Lewis stopped trading nearly 3 years ago. His brother Joey is one of the biggest players in the pit and has been for a long time.
The biggest traders by far are the prop shop traders at Kingstree - 2 of them and a newer trader at Jump Trading. 990 has been on the decline after getting wounded last spring.
In the pit, only MLynch, Goldman and Morgan do much business and even then that business is mostly a dual order between the minis and majors.
The problem with the squawk service is this...much of the action is "stretched." Does Mlynch do business? Yes, but not nearly as much as this service would have you believe. My advice for any trader would be to take these services with a grain of salt. If you like to have the noise piped in or for some other reason that's fine. However, be cautious about believing this information is accurate.
As for the prop traders at Kingstree and Jump...not unusual for them to have on 3000 minis at a crack. The problem they have had in the past year is the vast influx of algorithmic trading. Without getting too technical, many of these programs actually sort out what these traders are doing through the CME's counter party ID and attempt to "read" their positions, then when the opportunity strikes - move it against them.
I hope this is helpful.
The squawk services available commercially are marginal at best. The discusssion about Lewis Borsellino is funny because Lewis stopped trading nearly 3 years ago. His brother Joey is one of the biggest players in the pit and has been for a long time.
The biggest traders by far are the prop shop traders at Kingstree - 2 of them and a newer trader at Jump Trading. 990 has been on the decline after getting wounded last spring.
In the pit, only MLynch, Goldman and Morgan do much business and even then that business is mostly a dual order between the minis and majors.
The problem with the squawk service is this...much of the action is "stretched." Does Mlynch do business? Yes, but not nearly as much as this service would have you believe. My advice for any trader would be to take these services with a grain of salt. If you like to have the noise piped in or for some other reason that's fine. However, be cautious about believing this information is accurate.
As for the prop traders at Kingstree and Jump...not unusual for them to have on 3000 minis at a crack. The problem they have had in the past year is the vast influx of algorithmic trading. Without getting too technical, many of these programs actually sort out what these traders are doing through the CME's counter party ID and attempt to "read" their positions, then when the opportunity strikes - move it against them.
I hope this is helpful.
As a long time CME member and index trader I have to tell you that some of the comments are a bit off on this thread.
The squawk services available commercially are marginal at best. The discusssion about Lewis Borsellino is funny because Lewis stopped trading nearly 3 years ago. His brother Joey is one of the biggest players in the pit and has been for a long time.
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First thing that I have to say is, that what I posted is based on what I heard from people there. I was told that before Lewis was banned a couple months ago, he traded the morning session and then his brother Joey took over in the afternoon. There was also another brother, but he was also banned a long time ago. So right now I guess Joey is one of the biggest there. I heard the second biggest local there goes by the name Slomo. .
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The biggest traders by far are the prop shop traders at Kingstree - 2 of them and a newer trader at Jump Trading. 990 has been on the decline after getting wounded last spring.
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I'm sure you are right about that.
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In the pit, only MLynch, Goldman and Morgan do much business and even then that business is mostly a dual order between the minis and majors.
-------------
That's what i said!
-------------
The problem with the squawk service is this...much of the action is "stretched." Does Mlynch do business? Yes, but not nearly as much as this service would have you believe. My advice for any trader would be to take these services with a grain of salt. If you like to have the noise piped in or for some other reason that's fine. However, be cautious about believing this information is accurate.
-------------
I don't know what squawkbox you're talking about, but the one I use is pretty accurate! I use the squawkbox to get to know who's really active in the market. I trade NASDAQ stocks. Last Thursday i could see in NASDAQ stocks that some big marketmakers were distributing some HUGE blocks of stock in specific stocks. There was some good selling going on in the pit too especially on the cash closes. So when I heard the sellers come in Thursday in the pit, I shorted all stocks I saw marketmakers were distributing stock in. I made good money on that. I also don't want to be shorting heavy weight stocks when there's a lot of buying going on in the index. And for the rest I like to hear the pit background noise and squawk action. For me it's a big advantage sometimes!
---------------
Please correct me if I'm wrong!!
Thanks for your reply.
-Dave.
The squawk services available commercially are marginal at best. The discusssion about Lewis Borsellino is funny because Lewis stopped trading nearly 3 years ago. His brother Joey is one of the biggest players in the pit and has been for a long time.
------------
First thing that I have to say is, that what I posted is based on what I heard from people there. I was told that before Lewis was banned a couple months ago, he traded the morning session and then his brother Joey took over in the afternoon. There was also another brother, but he was also banned a long time ago. So right now I guess Joey is one of the biggest there. I heard the second biggest local there goes by the name Slomo. .
------------
The biggest traders by far are the prop shop traders at Kingstree - 2 of them and a newer trader at Jump Trading. 990 has been on the decline after getting wounded last spring.
-------------
I'm sure you are right about that.
-------------
In the pit, only MLynch, Goldman and Morgan do much business and even then that business is mostly a dual order between the minis and majors.
-------------
That's what i said!
-------------
The problem with the squawk service is this...much of the action is "stretched." Does Mlynch do business? Yes, but not nearly as much as this service would have you believe. My advice for any trader would be to take these services with a grain of salt. If you like to have the noise piped in or for some other reason that's fine. However, be cautious about believing this information is accurate.
-------------
I don't know what squawkbox you're talking about, but the one I use is pretty accurate! I use the squawkbox to get to know who's really active in the market. I trade NASDAQ stocks. Last Thursday i could see in NASDAQ stocks that some big marketmakers were distributing some HUGE blocks of stock in specific stocks. There was some good selling going on in the pit too especially on the cash closes. So when I heard the sellers come in Thursday in the pit, I shorted all stocks I saw marketmakers were distributing stock in. I made good money on that. I also don't want to be shorting heavy weight stocks when there's a lot of buying going on in the index. And for the rest I like to hear the pit background noise and squawk action. For me it's a big advantage sometimes!
---------------
Please correct me if I'm wrong!!
Thanks for your reply.
-Dave.
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Fun read & have thought some about selling the high in a bull market;
buying the low in a bear market.
Main reasons never actually did it much, are several;
in highly liquid markets i trade, not that much liquidity @ tops/bottoms, even in highly liquid markets
Like DR said ,someone has to do the hi/lo everyday;
interesting to watch.
