Which way? Hydrogen / Green Energy

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bu...t/news-story/b68620d31c7c1683a0d974f1e83e843c

Hydrogen energy jackpot ‘ours if we act fast’, says Andrew Forrest

Fortescue’s executive chairman Andrew Forrest. Picture: Colin Murty

JANUARY 22, 2021

Fortescue Metals chairman Andrew Forrest is pitching hydrogen energy as Australia’s renewable energy future, predicting it could become a $US12 trillion ($15.5 trillion) global industry with the right policies.

In his first Boyer lecture to be broadcast on ABC TV on Saturday and radio on Sunday, Oil v Water: Confessions of a Carbon Emitter, Mr Forrest says Australia – and Fortescue – has the potential to be a world leader in the sector, “but only if it acts fast”.

He has vowed his company, Fortescue, will become one of the world’s largest renewable energy production companies, challenging electric car company Tesla for its role in green energy related product, and has announced plans for Fortescue to back a pilot plant to produce “green steel”, which he says has the potential to create an industry using Australia’s vast resources of iron ore to make steel using “green energy”.

He says Australia has the potential to become a key player in a “green steel” industry, creating an industry to replace jobs lost by the decline of the coal industry.

Mr Forrest’s plans as outlined in the speech foreshadow a major repositioning of Fortescue which is largely an iron ore producer selling almost all of its product to China, generating net profit of more than $US4.7bn last financial year.

In the speech he noted Fortescue has a has a market capitalisation of less than $US60bn – but it made a net profit, after tax, of over $US940m – just last month.

He says hydrogen energy was the solution to the need to move the world away from its dependence on fossil fuels.

“Hydrogen is the most common element in existence,” he says. “The universe is 75 per cent hydrogen so we never run out of it. To make it, all you need to do is run electricity through water.

“Green hydrogen, the purest source of energy in the world, could replace up to three-quarters of our emissions if we improve the technology and had the scale.”

He says the question “wasn’t whether green hydrogen would become the next global energy form, but who would be the first to mass-produce it”.

“Green” hydrogen is “virtually ignored by the economic world”, he says, which is “missing a colossal opportunity.”

He says there are challenges in transporting green hydrogen “but we are cracking that … Australia is sitting on everything it needs to be world leader but only if it acts fast”.

He says China, Japan and South Korea have made promises over the past year to put almost eight million hydrogen-fuelled cell cars on the road, while UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is investing £12bn in green energy and has banned the sale of fossil fuel engines by 2030. Australia is investing $300m in hydrogen.

Mr Forrest was speaking after leading a team of 40 people to almost 50 countries in five months to discuss renewable energy investments with political leaders.

He contracted COVID from an interpreter during the trip, spending three days on oxygen in a Swiss hospital in an isolation chamber before resuming his travels.

Mr Forrest says China is making a massive move into green energy “without fanfare”.

Fortescue will become a “first mover” in taking the risk of producing “green hydrogen (on a) global, industrial scale,” he says.

GLENDA KORPORAAL

ASSOCIATE EDITOR (BUSINESS)
Glenda Korporaal has been covering business and finance in Australia and around the world for more than thirty years. She has worked in Sydney, Canberra, Washington, New York, London, Hong Kong and Singapore.......
 
Sigh. That canard again.

"To make it, all you need to do is run electricity through water." - yes. A LOT of electricity, creating a hugely less energy-dense fuel than the fossil fuels that is very hard to store effectively.

"He says hydrogen energy was the solution to the need to move the world away from its dependence on fossil fuels." - where does he think that electricity that needs to be run through water is coming from? Solar/wind? That's pretty expensive by itself - then what do you do with the hydrogen that is produced? Hydrogen storage and transportation is very expensive, much more so than with fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is not in any way a replacement for fossil fuels. It is just a pretty poor energy storage medium.
 
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Sigh. That canard again.

"To make it, all you need to do is run electricity through water." - yes. A LOT of electricity, creating a hugely less energy-dense fuel than the fossil fuels that is very hard to store effectively.

"He says hydrogen energy was the solution to the need to move the world away from its dependence on fossil fuels." - where does he think that electricity that needs to be run through water is coming from? Solar/wind? That's pretty expensive by itself - then what do you do with the hydrogen that is produced? Hydrogen storage and transportation is very expensive, much more so than with fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is not in any way a replacement for fossil fuels. It is just a pretty poor energy storage medium.
Nat gas steam reforming, electrolysis isn't the only way.
 
I never claimed otherwise. CO2 footprint can be lower than centralized fossil fuel elec. generation however
First of all - I'm not sure. It should probably produce just as much CO2 as burning the natural gas in an ICE.

And then you have to take into account the low hydrogen energy density, inefficiency of hydrogen storage, transportation, etc.
 
First of all - I'm not sure. It should probably produce just as much CO2 as burning the natural gas in an ICE.

And then you have to take into account the low hydrogen energy density, inefficiency of hydrogen storage, transportation, etc.

Neither statement is necessarily true. H2 vehicles are not burning hydrogen in a conventional ICE. You could, but it's inefficient. Fuel cells are more efficient than ICE engines

One doesn't necessarily need to carry hydrogen in pure hydrogen form either as SOFCs and MCFCs allow internal reforming of hydrocarbon liquid and gaseous fuels.

If talking about centralized reforming and compressing, it's possible this is less efficient than centralized electric generation but would likely still beat hydrocarbon burning in a conventional ICE engine from a CO2 standpoint.
 
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If talking about centralized reforming and compressing, it's possible this is less efficient than centralized electric generation but would likely still beat hydrocarbon burning in a conventional ICE engine from a CO2 standpoint.

Where does O2 come from Boris?

Well, it comes from the plants and trees which convert CO2 to O2.

And what happens when you stop producing CO2, Boris?

Well...It comes from the plug.
 
Basically, any talk of hydrogen as fuel being "green" and replacing fossil fuels smacks of perpetuum-mobile fallacy. Again, hydrogen in such a model is not fuel. It is an energy transfer medium, and a pretty poor one at that.
 
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