Which Trading Environment Would You Choose To Hone Your Skills In?

[rogueRED]

Quote from olias:



So in answer to your question, it really depends on each individual. Factors such as experience and risk capital are key. A complete newbie (especially with limited funds) is probably gonna be much better off doing sim trading. Learn the mechanics of trading and identifying trades first. Learn to handle the emotions later. One thing at a time.

"Complete newbies" I completely agree with Olias and was something I was interested in hearing about. Thanks for the comment.

 

[spd]

I honed my trading skills with real money and a bag of weed.

 

[Redneck]

Quote from rogueRED:

Hi Redneck -

I'm not asking for your secrets. I'm asking what environment would be best to learn from? If you are a profitable trader I am sure you skinned your knee more times than you can count ... wouldn't you have rather "paid your due's" in an account that may not have hurt your bank roll but felt as if it did when you were still in it? Thats all I am asking so I can hopefully provide a tool to help people really understand the mental aspect of trading as most act like lemmings and chase after the newest indicator or system. As you know finding good traders is not an easy endeavor - hence my reason Im posting this only in the "Trading for a Living Forum".

Ill keep my mouth shut on your other comments and take them as good banter and assure you I have no interest in building testimonials from a forum of people with fake names who I know nothing about. - I trust you understand.

The best environment for me would have been with a competent/ honest mentor slapping me in the back of the head, saying don’t do that dumbass…..

That never happened so I paid my dues – as I’m sure most have


A fact – we all learn differently, and no one truly knows how another learns – so anything I could add would not benefit many

I’ve always maintained it best we learn to be our own mentor, teacher, coach, whatever….



Demo account is a tool – it only goes so far

A random demo account is not much better

A mini account may work till it’s time to scale up

A standard account – is what most start out with anyway and end up failing


I know what you’re trying to accomplish – just not sure it’ll help


eta – btw I’ve always maintained trading is 93 – 95% mental, 5-7% physical – I get the psychological aspects – from a couple of different viewpoints….



RN

 

[rogueRED]

Quote from Redneck trader:

The best environment for me would have been with a competent/ honest mentor slapping me in the back of the head, saying don�t do that dumbass�..

That never happened so I paid my dues � as I�m sure most have


A fact � we all learn differently, and no one truly knows how another learns � so anything I could add would not benefit many

I�ve always maintained it best we learn to be our own mentor, teacher, coach, whatever�.



Demo account is a tool � it only goes so far

A random demo account is not much better

A mini account may work till it�s time to scale up

A standard account � is what most start out with anyway and end up failing


I know what you�re trying to accomplish � just not sure it�ll help


eta � btw I�ve always maintained trading is 93 � 95% mental, 5-7% physical � I get the psychological aspects � from a couple of different viewpoints�.



RN

appreciate your input, specifically the first line. can i quote it? ... LOL

 

[Redneck]

Quote from rogueRED:

appreciate your input, specifically the first line. can i quote it? ... LOL

Sure why not…..


Look I truly hope your intentions are good – I’ve come across many that weren’t – especially at times when I needed help the most – and I've never forgot that time in my career – it keeps me grounded…


I am not a teacher by any stretch of the imagination – however I do believe lessons are learnt only after one assimilates them into their subconscious (their way of being/ acting/ doing)... If you have a way to help that process along while saving someone money – more power to ya


Just be specific on your goals, the process, the intended results... Traders must always be specific... generalities kill

RN

 

[Cheese]

Quote from rogueRED:

Which Trading Environment Would You Choose To Hone Your Skills In?

Whereas,

-Demo Account: no real funds and no emotional capital involved.

-Mini-Live Account: minimal real funds and almost no emotional capital involved.

-Standard-Live Account: your normal funds and your normal emotional capital involved.

Why assume there is any 'emotional capital'? And you further assume there is 'emotional capital' to live trading and none for simulated trading.

If you are not gambling but instead have a tested and reliable methodology you do not have the drag of emotional capital (your code for anxiety, fear, etc). Your confidence in your own trading would apply.

If it helps, I always find there is little or no difference between simulated and live results. This is because I use limit orders and not market orders.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from spd:

I honed my trading skills with real money and a bag of weed.

Hey, I honed my trading skills with POT, too! They kept telling me it was a gateway trade and they were right; those crackheads at CL Redux sucked me right in...

 

[jnbadger]

Quote from olias:

The random thing is an interesting idea. I wouldn't call it dumb. I think it's pretty clever. It's a way to keep emotions part of the equation and also limit the risk from trading live all the time. I think there are too many potential problems from people getting frustrated, pissed off, potentially trying to fight the broker contesting whether it was supposed to be live or simulated....I don't see that getting off the ground.

I see your point, and although I can see it's apparent benefits on the surface, there are definite drawbacks.

A somewhat related example is of a buddy of mine who thought he had cracked some code in the spy. He was making around 40 - 50 bucks a day, but he said he couldn't seem to get to the point where he could up his size. So he suggested either calling out his trades, or setting up some hidden account which would duplicate his trades, but at 5 to 10 times the size.

Well, this was an averaging system, so guess what happened? -1600 in the last few days. I can only imagine the damage if he had done the dupe acct. Lesson: If you're reluctant to up your size, there's a reason, either consciously or subconsciously.

The random acct seems interesting, but on a bad day, you're going to hope you're in the sim acct. I just think anything other than live trading is a psychological crutch.

 

[rogueRED]

Quote from jnbadger:



The random acct seems interesting, but on a bad day, you're going to hope you're in the sim acct. I just think anything other than live trading is a psychological crutch.

"Random" doesn't imply 50/50. You could set the randomizer to 1% live to 99% demo logins, or 20/80, or 40/60, 70/30 etc (depending on your confidence).

Also, what about a "good day"?, and even besides that .. the type of day shouldnt matter. What matters is the long haul and understanding "you".

Personally I would rather train in an environment where I believe I am in a live account so all aspects are on the table than a demo where I dont feel anything or an actual live account chews up my capital.

Once you're confident after that experience, then 100% live is an easier transition IMHO.

"Become who you are" - rogueRed

 

[bigfurrymonster]

I highly recommend demo trading to all my friends who want to start trading.
Why the rush to start trading? The market won't disappear next year. I tell them if you can't make money on demo, how do you expect to make money on a live account!
If I gave you a plane and told you to that you can fly it whenever you want, would you immediately jump in or would you first train on a flight simulator?
If you believe that you need pressure/adrenaline rush to learn trading, it probably means that you are trading for the wrong reasons.
When should you stop demo trading? If you do it seriously and with discipline you will know when you are ready.