Which real live future trading room I should choose?

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The current month's subscription is extended until around Oct. 5th since he was away on vacation in August and added a week to the subscription.

Either there are some spectacular trades by then, or I'm going to have to cancel, and trade on my own.

I can't keep missing out on powerful moves like todays sell off.
 
Quote from Jreality:

The current month's subscription is extended until around Oct. 5th since he was away on vacation in August.

Either there are some spectacular trades by then, or I'm going to have to cancel, and trade on my own.

I can't keep missing out on powerful moves like todays sell off.
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Well, it's a lesson that every trader has to learn. We all wanted the easy way out in the beginning... just listen to some guy who will give you the A, B, C steps to making it. Then we all find out that it's not that easy. That's not to say that all educators are useless... but in the end, you will have to come up with your own stuff to make it work.

I would not sign up with any more educators in the future unless they offer a free trial to let you see what they are offering before asking for your money. You can waste a lot of cash on all the stuff that's out there.
 
Quote from Jreality:

The current month's subscription is extended until around Oct. 5th since he was away on vacation in August and added a week to the subscription.

Either there are some spectacular trades by then, or I'm going to have to cancel, and trade on my own.

I can't keep missing out on powerful moves like todays sell off.
More...

I just read the last page of this thread and know which room you are talking about.

A lot of time spent on education & small talk with no trading going on.

I've been in the room with 20 point moves on the ES trending and no trades were called.

I picked up a few pointers from his style of trading but can't justify the $300.00 a month fee.

I moved on after waiting a couple of months for things to pick up in the room.
 
Yes, that's the room. If everything isn't in perfect alignment with his setups he usually doesn't trade at all. EDIT: On a choppy and flat day that's fine, but on a day that is trending, so far I've been lucky to see one or two 1 point trades at best.

There was one day a couple of weeks ago where he decided to do a seminar on trend-trading that involved looking at setups from screen shots of past charts. The irony, is that while he was doing the seminar on trend-trading using past charts, the /ES was trending nicely that day, but zero trades were taken because he was focusing strictly on giving a teaching presentation, while ignoring the market. Had he done the seminar on a flat day, that would have been fine, but we missed out probably the only potentially highly profitable trading day that week!
 
Quote from northmen202:

I just read the last page of this thread and know which room you are talking about.

A lot of time spent on education & small talk with no trading going on.

I've been in the room with 20 point moves on the ES trending and no trades were called.

I picked up a few pointers from his style of trading but can't justify the $300.00 a month fee.

I moved on after waiting a couple of months for things to pick up in the room.
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And that's the thing. The trending times are the litmus test of how good a trader is. If he knows how to identify a trend and catch a good portion of it, he is a good trader. That's where all the money is. There are people who trade counter-trend systems and make money, and there are also scalpers who make money - but counter-trend makes you less money than trend-following (and is more dangerous), and scalping cannot be taught very well, since it requires talent on the part of the student to be able to read price action (and is also very hard).

So basically, what every educator should be doing is teaching you (a) how to avoid the chop, and (b) how to identify and catch trends. If they can't do that, then their course is useless. This teacher teaches you how to avoid chop and that's fine, BUT he doesn't know how to catch trends.... so that means it's time to move on, he doesn't know what he is doing.

JReality, if you ever sign up for another room in the future, take a look at how the person handles trends. If they can't identify and catch the trend for a good portion of the move, LEAVE. If they're scalping a 20 point trend for 4 ticks, LEAVE. If they sit there all day and tell you why you shouldn't trade when the market is running, LEAVE. You only need one day like that to tell you all you need to know.

Let me ask you a question:

At what point today were you sure that a trend was underway? What ES price? 1070? 1067? Wherever it was, if you had traded the method that I told you for getting in on a pullback, would you have made money?

If the answer is yes, then you have yourself a trading system. You look at the overall big picture using your human intuition, determine one of two things - A. TRENDING, or B. NOT TRENDING. If TRENDING, run the system. If NOT TRENDING, do nothing.

You may have to sit there for a long time without a trade, but that simple system will make you money when those trends happen. That is the way to trade - you use your discretion to determine the market conditions, and then use rigid rules to apply a trading system to those market conditions.
 
i had a subscription with the same guy----if u have 10-40 contracts and like scalping 1 to 2 ticks 1-3 times a day then he is your guy.

otherwise he ALWAYS missed the big moves

personally i wouldn't waste my time in his class

take the education that you got from him and use it with your own system or the one you are developing

sim trade it till you know it works then stay disciplined and patient waiting for your setups---there is alot of good advice from people on the prior posts

you will succeed----it will take some hard work---profits and losses are part of the game
 
FB123,

Using the trendline between the top and and the lower high from 1st retrace that you pointed out, I could have gotten in around 1072 on the next bounce toward that trendline with a stop a point or two about the trendline.

Even without drawing a trendline, on a 5 minute chart, it's still obvious, in retrospect, that it was trending downward, because there were clearly two initial attempts to retrace upward with two consecutive green candles on each attempt on lower volume. If I waited until after the 2nd attempt at a retrace upward, I could have gotten in at the close of the 1st red candle after that 2nd attempt at a retrace upward, and the entry price would have been 1068.5 at the close. In that case the stop could have been a tick above that candle's open. Less ideal than using the trendline though.
 
Quote from elitetrader99:

i had a subscription with the same guy----if u have 10-40 contracts and like scalping 1 to 2 ticks 1-3 times a day then he is your guy.

otherwise he ALWAYS missed the big moves

personally i wouldn't waste my time in his class

take the education that you got from him and use it with your own system or the one you are developing

sim trade it till you know it works then stay disciplined and patient waiting for your setups---there is alot of good advice from people on the prior posts



you will succeed----it will take some hard work---profits and losses are part of the game
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On good days the room would have small gains & on the bad days the losses were massive.

The bottom fell out more than once trying to scalp 1 tick long.

Before you know what hit you the room is down 5 or 7 points and loaded up to the hilt with more contracts because he keeps averaging down.

It's a niche style of trading but not geared for the average trader that joins his room.
 
Yes, he lost 12K a couple of weeks ago from getting involved in a big trade. (although I had thought it was more...he had to swtich computers during the trade and he says it was 12K). He hasn't made it back yet from trading over the past couple of weeks. He's only been making a few hundred here and there for the past couple of weeks.

EDIT: well, I don't know about 5 or 7 points...I don't think he would let it go that far but it could be 3 points...and it really HURTS if you're loaded to the hilt with contracts and get stopped out at 3 points. (especially when the gains are typically less than 1 point and you might not be loaded up when getting that 1 point)

He's probably profitable for the year from trading, but I have to wonder how profitable (based strictly on what I've seen...maybe the past couple of months aren't ideal for his style of trading).

While he seems like a nice guy, he acts like he's doing the trading community a gigantic favor by making the room available (for $300 per month).
 
Quote from Jreality:

FB123,

Using the trendline between the top and and the lower high from 1st retrace that you pointed out, I could have gotten in around 1072 on the next bounce toward that trendline with a stop a point or two about the trendline.

Even without drawing a trendline, on a 5 minute chart, it's still obvious, in retrospect, that it was trending downward, because there were clearly two initial attempts to retrace upward with two consecutive green candles on each attempt on lower volume. If I waited until after the 2nd attempt at a retrace upward, I could have gotten in at the close of the 1st red candle after that 2nd attempt at a retrace upward, and the entry price would have been 1068.5 at the close. In that case the stop could have been a tick above that candle's open. Less ideal than using the trendline though.
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The actual method that you use to get in doesn't matter too much... there are better ways than just looking at a trendline on a minute chart, but anyways just do the math.... how much would you have been risking by getting in in there? And what was your potential reward? The risk/reward ratio is excellent, and if you take those trades all the time you will make money.

On a related note, when it comes to getting in, don't be too picky about the exact price level. I've seen some idiots sit there and not take a retracement trade because it didn't hit their price by literally ONE TICK. Sometimes the price actually trades at their level but just doesn't fill them. Then they watch the market turn and run the other way for 5 points and say something stupid like "let the market come to you, never chase it". I guess the fact that they just picked an arbitrary price point at an approximate S/R level never occurred to these morons. The market doesn't move to exact price points, it moves to approximate price levels... so if it gets close and starts to turn back, then it's "close enough" - especially in trending conditions. Wait for it to get to an S/R zone, read the price action, and if you're not filled with a limit order, cross the market when it starts to turn.

If risking an extra tick is going to net you a 3-4 point winner, it's worth the risk/reward to do that every time if the price action is telling you that it won't reach your limit order. So the next time it looks like it's ALMOST at your level and is starting to turn back to the trend, get in. The expression "don't be a dick for a tick" applies here.
 
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