Which real live future trading room I should choose?

[StevenBruce]

Well its interesting that some folks here are actually THINKING about the problem in a constructive way.

Clearly you want to get good professional advice and training.

Ok so where are you most likely to find that level of advice? On a website filled with amateurs, scammers and emotional train wrecks playing out their fantasies? No...

How about on the Internet...maybe Youtube...What about the exchanges?......there are at least a dozen or more (as seen in the first posts on this thread)....We learn that some of them are "pros"....have worked as floor locals now or in the recent past...does that mean anything? Maybe...one could ask, "what kind of success did you have trading on the exchange floor? Does that success translate into something you can use trading from a screen, and are you equiped to teach to a complete beginner"? and finally

"Can you offer a couple of references....names and contact info of perhaps two or three people who you have trained and who are now making a living at this"?

THESE ARE THE HARD QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE ASKED AND ANSWERED....IF THE VENDOR CAN'T ANSWER POSITIVELY, YOU MAY WANT TO THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT THE PROPOSED TRAINING

Ok, so the idea that a guy is a former floor trader doesnt necessarily mean anything (he could after all, have blown out his account and is now trying to build it back up so he can give it another try)...

The idea that one should request financial info (account performance) doesn't help you either..If a guy is a scammer, believe me he can show you whatever you want to see....Forget that crap and think about what really matters.

First, a skilled professional can explain market action in simple terms. He can direct you in a way that puts you in positive territory right away. If a vendor doesn't have the ability to calmly explain how markets work, how his system works, and how to approach each day in a way that gives you confidence, then you are in the wrong place. Assuming you are doing your homework, a student should feel as though they are moving toward their goal from day 1.

If it aint happening, stop what you are doing and find out whats missing.....rinse and repeat until you get to your goal.

 

[Affecto]

you could be true man... that I am not doing my homework enough, but seriously I don’t have a trader talents like most of you guys... every time I trade I loose or don’t win... it’s not gonna work out like that! Beside I feel much more confident when I am with a trade partner who understand a bit more than me…or he does the homework of following the news announcements and understand what the news and the market is doing each day and then call the trade.
And even if it was a loser you get the comfort that we are doing good on average... trading is psychologically hard and I think I am gonna get it done correctly or just quick and find another "extra-job" to help my financials.
Thanks for sharing
oh by the way, I was doing really well with Mike Coval and Chris of www.incometrader.com until the recent July rally, where they blow everything and we eat the last 2 months winners in just 1 week! They decided then to put the service to 50 instead of 250 and only 1 day live trade.. The rest is just the chart and you!!

Quote from southbeach4me:

Amazing how many people there are that want an easy way to make trades just by "following the leader" of a so called live trading room so that they dont have to worh hard to find their edge. How pathetic.

Think it about it! If these so called "live trading gurus" were actually making money consistently, they wouldn't even bother selling their "system" to others, they wouldnt want the competition!!

Live trading room= highway to failure

 

[StevenBruce]

Interesting

"oh by the way, I was doing really well with Mike Coval and Chris of www.incometrader.com until the recent July rally, where they blow everything and we eat the last 2 months winners in just 1 week! They decided then to put the service to 50 instead of 250 and only 1 day live trade.. The rest is just the chart and you!!"

Ok so if this is true, it is significant because the most important thing a newbies has to do is LEARN HOW TO PROTECT CAPITAL!
Its called risk management...If a so-called professional can't manage their own capital how can they teach YOU to win this game..?

Boom cross them off the list.

 

[FB123]

Quote from stevesbg:

Interesting

"oh by the way, I was doing really well with Mike Coval and Chris of www.incometrader.com until the recent July rally, where they blow everything and we eat the last 2 months winners in just 1 week! They decided then to put the service to 50 instead of 250 and only 1 day live trade.. The rest is just the chart and you!!"

Ok so if this is true, it is significant because the most important thing a newbies has to do is LEARN HOW TO PROTECT CAPITAL!
Its called risk management...If a so-called professional can't manage their own capital how can they teach YOU to win this game..?

Boom cross them off the list.

Agreed. Anyone (and I mean ANYONE) who got creamed in that July rally is a complete joke of a day trader. End of story. If you aren't making a killing on the trending days you don't have a damn clue what you're doing. Take that to the bank.

Let me give you some free advice. If you're expecting to have someone hold your hand and show you how to become a successful daytrader, you are going to be in big, big trouble. In order to succeed in this business you have to be the type of person who is able to take responsibility for your own learning and decisions. That means you need to be able to take whatever advice you hear and run it through your own filter to see if it makes sense, and then act on that in confidence. If you don't have confidence in your own ability to determine the good advice from the BS, then you probably don't have what it takes. 90% of the world doesn't. Nobody is going to be able to hold your hand on the path to success in this business, you'll have to earn it all yourself. Becoming a successful daytrader isn't like following a set of instructions to bake a cake - it's a little tougher than that.

 

[FB123]

Quote from Affecto:

And even if it was a loser you get the comfort that we are doing good on average... trading is psychologically hard and I think I am gonna get it done correctly or just quick and find another "extra-job" to help my financials.

If you are expecting to learn how to be a daytrader quickly so it can help your financial situation, you are in for a massive disappointment. You are going to have to put many thousands of hours of work into this, probably more work than you have ever done in your life, just to be able to have a chance at getting it. Daytrading is one of the most difficult things in the world to do consistently and profitably, so if you're doing this to make a quick buck you are definitely barking up the wrong tree. If on the other hand you really love trading for its own sake and are willing to work your ass off, you might have a shot. Think about it before you waste too much more time and money.

 

[Jym]

Just spend a couple months playing around on a paper account.

I got a free ninjatrader trial from Mirus that's good until i decide to fund an account. It's not exactly like real life but I'm trying to follow what rules I'd have to out in the real world with respect to lot sizes and stops to keep it as real as possible.

In my opinion all that'll end up happening with the trading room is that'll you follow those guys for a month or 2 possibly make a decent return, try to do it on your own without any real practice and blow out your entire account the next month.

 

[Jreality]

If anyone knows one of these rooms that are reasonably consistently profitable and which the trades would be profitable with relatively smaller sizes (say a few contracts at a time) let me know.

I recently joined one of those rooms. I'm not going to tell you which one, but the person running the room definitely is a real trader and is a nice guy. However, he often trades very large sizes. I've seen him trade as many as 200 contracts total after scaling into a position 50 contracts at a time. At present 9 contracts total still makes me anxious. There is no way I would trade sizes anywhere near that large. By the way, he trades for real, and does not use a simulator.

Many of the trades in the room (so far) have only been for 1 or 2 ticks of profit. I'm only trading a few contracts because, if the trade involves scaling in (which isn't known beforehand) , then I don't want to wind up with a position bigger than, say, 10 contracts, because if it goes the wrong way and I get stopped out at, say, 3 points, it can result in a big loss.

In the past few weeks, the person running the room only had a total of 3 losing trades and the rest were winnning trades. A couple days there were no trades, but usually there are 2 or 3 trades per day.

Even though most of the trades were winners, I've lost $1500 or more trying to follow the trades in the room. One trade I botched I lost $1600 in a single trade being stopped out of 15+ contracts. It's my fault for botching a couple of the trades. After all, nobody put a gun to my head and told me to join the room and follow someone else's trades. However, I got spooked and lowered my sizes. Following someone elses's trade that involves scaling into a position in a short period of time and hopping out quickly isn't always easy for me.

Very recently, there was one day that the person running the room had a big loss (maybe 20K or more) because he was trading very large sizes and 2 trades didn't work out so he had a big. He's probably up in the hundreds of thousands per year, so it's probably no big deal to him. He probably makes hundreds of thousands per year as a result of membership fees in the room as well. He had another big loss a few weeks ago exacerbated by a computer glitch, but he had a nice string of winners after that to make up for it.

I've probably saved as much as I've lost because there were times when the room moderator's market comments prevented me from taking some of my own trades which would have caused me to get my head handed to me. It is educational being in the room and that is worth something too. However, I was hoping that I would actually make money from following the trades in the room, which hasn't happened yet overall.

The person running the room is very conservative in the sense that he doesn't like to take a trade unless the conditions are correct for a trade. However, every once in a while he gets too aggressive and has a big loser. It doesn't happen too frequently, from what I can see, but it does happen. He's also aggressive in the sense that he sometimes trades huge sizes. If you've got 150 contracts in a trade, then all it takes is a 3 point loss to be down 22K on a trade. Situations like that have happened to him, but he makes up for it. I wouldn't touch those sizes with a 10 foot pole.

When the market gets less choppy, there should be trades involving larger profit targets than a couple of ticks. Then, if it goes well I hopefully would be banking some good coin from the trades in the room if I don't botch them.

If anyone knows of a room in which there are consistent winners, and in which the trades are profitable when trading a few contracts at a time, let me know.

 

[FB123]

Quote from Jreality:

If anyone knows of a room in which there are consistent winners, and in which the trades are profitable when trading a few contracts at a time, let me know.

If you're looking for a room where someone is going to tell you exactly where to get in and out all the time so that you will always make money, you aren't going to find it. You can't just follow someone else's trades and make money like that. The sooner you realize this point, the better off you will be.

 

[Jreality]

I'm not expecting to win 100% of the time. I'm just hoping that if I were to take every trade, that over time, I would make money rather than losing or breaking even. Would that be expecting too much?

 

[FB123]

Quote from Jreality:

I'm not expecting to win 100% of the time. I'm just hoping that if I were to take every trade, that over time, I would make money rather than losing or breaking even. Would that be expecting too much?

Generally, yes. You are looking to shadow someone without having any actual knowledge yourself. Lots of people try to do that, and lots of people aren't successful at it. There's probably a reason for that.... but keep trying, you'll probably have to figure it out for yourself.