Which Prop Firms provide the best mentorships and training?

[EdgeHunter]

Quote from gmst:

I would be signing up with a prop firm few months down the line. So, I really appreciate your candidness in giving a balanced view of good and bad things about Bright!

After reading this and other few threads about Bright, my impression is that for a high volume trader, Bright is un-competitive on rates vs echo (There was a thread in which EricP and Dustin confirmed that they couldn't get good rates with Bright . EricP even said he saved 1M$ on commissions by not going with Bright over 18 months - but thats another topic). However, for a primarily swing/pair trader with overnight holds, Bright is better than echo - this is my impression, I could be off here. It is said that Bright balance sheet is solid, but I haven't heard any numbers, so a comparison against Echo would be helpful. No one can deny that Bright have been in the business for 30 or so years and Don appears to have integrity and that Bob is a highly successful trader. These are ++. However, as far as training is concerned, scratch Bright.

Yes I read that book couple years ago. I didn't like it because I thought there was some blatant marketing in that book. However, I will give it another read based on your recommendation. Cheers.

thanks...

Yes... The Book: One Good Trade... The parts on tape reading were interesting... but not the whole book... agree there was marketing going on in it...

 

[chicagodon]

Quote from gmst:

Regarding expectations - I don't expect them to spoon feed me, however they should be willing to answer my questions. My aim is to just shorten the learning curve involved in equities trading understand basics like routing, dark pools, sectors, liquidity during news, behavior during earnings, pre market, post market behavior, setting up watch lists - things like that.

Fyi, I am a successful futures trader but never traded equities. Don't want to spend 6-8 months getting just set-up for equities trading. Rather would pay if it cuts down the time required and helps to set myself up in 2-3 months.

IMO, The ideal way would be if in a prop firm, I can sit next to a consistent equities trader or in middle of a profitable team for 2 to 6 months, watch him/them trade, pick on their brains during and after market hours. Will be willing to pay a special seat fees to the prop firm/trader. Its a given that the group needs to be profitable - otherwise, whats the point. LOL.

If you want to sit next to a top trader, then most will require a track record. I have a buddy that traded his own prop account for many years, 10+, and I asked him what it would take for me to join his group and that was his response, granted he was in NY and I wasn't able to move at the time, but that might be changing very soon. Maybe with your track record of futures you might be considered. If you are looking for a strategy type situation, you are probably not going to find it. If you are looking for how the software works, then that's an easy fix.

 

[satchel]

gmst - I think you are asking for too much. Even if it existed.

Does prop firm and mentor-ship/training even belong in the same sentence. Read through some of the threads by the top prop traders that have posted on ET. Usually it goes something like this: they manage your risk and you are given a desk/chair/computer and basically have to figure it out, the lucky ones stayed alive. After a few years they have pulled together some strategies.

Sit next to a top trader? Why is anyone going to give their edge away. What's the incentive.

With your requirements list, you might be better of finding a mentor, and that is not an easy task.

 

[gmst]

Quote from chicagodon:

If you want to sit next to a top trader, then most will require a track record. I have a buddy that traded his own prop account for many years, 10+, and I asked him what it would take for me to join his group and that was his response, granted he was in NY and I wasn't able to move at the time, but that might be changing very soon. Maybe with your track record of futures you might be considered. If you are looking for a strategy type situation, you are probably not going to find it. If you are looking for how the software works, then that's an easy fix.

I guess the top trader requires a track record so that he also learns something from the trader. Sounds very logical and good! I will PM you few months down the line when I am ready to commence my equities trading operation. Thanks.

 

[gmst]

Quote from satchel:

gmst - I think you are asking for too much. Even if it existed.

Does prop firm and mentor-ship/training even belong in the same sentence. Read through some of the threads by the top prop traders that have posted on ET. Usually it goes something like this: they manage your risk and you are given a desk/chair/computer and basically have to figure it out, the lucky ones stayed alive. After a few years they have pulled together some strategies.

Sit next to a top trader? Why is anyone going to give their edge away. What's the incentive.

With your requirements list, you might be better of finding a mentor, and that is not an easy task.

Yes, its going to be difficult. Just exploring the equity prop firm trading space and asking questions to learn since the thread topic is mentorships and training. As you know, I paid 70k in tuition to futures markets when I was completely green and took 3 yrs to eventually figure it out - most of my development happened using backtesting, research and market experience. Just looking to see if it is possible to shorten the learning curve in equities arena.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from gmst:

I would be signing up with a prop firm few months down the line. So, I really appreciate your candidness in giving a balanced view of good and bad things about Bright!

After reading this and other few threads about Bright, my impression is that for a high volume trader, Bright is un-competitive on rates vs echo (There was a thread in which EricP and Dustin confirmed that they couldn't get good rates with Bright . EricP even said he saved 1M$ on commissions by not going with Bright over 18 months - but thats another topic). However, for a primarily swing/pair trader with overnight holds, Bright is better than echo - this is my impression, I could be off here. It is said that Bright balance sheet is solid, but I haven't heard any numbers, so a comparison against Echo would be helpful. No one can deny that Bright have been in the business for 30 or so years and Don appears to have integrity and that Bob is a highly successful trader. These are ++. However, as far as training is concerned, scratch Bright.

Yes I read that book couple years ago. I didn't like it because I thought there was some blatant marketing in that book. However, I will give it another read based on your recommendation. Cheers.

Btw, are you a profitable equities trader? Who do you trade with? I just want to be extremely careful when I start equities trading with a prop firm since the failure rates at shops like Bright is probably north of 95%. So, a lot of things that are being offered at these shops do not work.

Please post facts about Echo's current rates, I'll do mine at that point. And, judging by the people who have come over this month, I'm pretty sure we're matching or better. Remember "echo" came from Bright, and has much in common with Bright, except for the fact that they have been acquired a couple of times. Thank Goodness the good guys there have stayed (Hi Rob and Jeff).

Don

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from gmst:

I would be signing up with a prop firm few months down the line. So, I really appreciate your candidness in giving a balanced view of good and bad things about Bright!

After reading this and other few threads about Bright, my impression is that for a high volume trader, Bright is un-competitive on rates vs echo (There was a thread in which EricP and Dustin confirmed that they couldn't get good rates with Bright . EricP even said he saved 1M$ on commissions by not going with Bright over 18 months - but thats another topic). However, for a primarily swing/pair trader with overnight holds, Bright is better than echo - this is my impression, I could be off here. It is said that Bright balance sheet is solid, but I haven't heard any numbers, so a comparison against Echo would be helpful. No one can deny that Bright have been in the business for 30 or so years and Don appears to have integrity and that Bob is a highly successful trader. These are ++. However, as far as training is concerned, scratch Bright.

Yes I read that book couple years ago. I didn't like it because I thought there was some blatant marketing in that book. However, I will give it another read based on your recommendation. Cheers.

Btw, are you a profitable equities trader? Who do you trade with? I just want to be extremely careful when I start equities trading with a prop firm since the failure rates at shops like Bright is probably north of 95%. So, a lot of things that are being offered at these shops do not work.

And, not sure which poster mentioned Echo, but again, according to those coming over here from Echo, we're more than competitive. And compared to my friends at G2, a lot more competitive. I have never seen anything solid from any of the other two firms. And, with latest list of "stuff" I don't blame them. I've busted my ass trying to help people here on ET, and a few seem hell bent on questioning my motives, a little upsetting to tell the truth.

If you're a "profitable equities trader" then how could things get worse by having more capital access and better access to the market?

"What is offered does not work"? Sorry, but what does that mean? We offer equities and ETF trading, at the highest levels. It's up to the traders, we are the facilitator, safe sound and solvent.

Please, someone tell me who does better training. Echo sends people here since they know how well we do because they were Bright Traders!

The people that I have asked to report from other "training classes" have not found anything even close. Give me an alternative, I'm open to learning new stuff too.

Don

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from gmst:

I guess the top trader requires a track record so that he also learns something from the trader. Sounds very logical and good! I will PM you few months down the line when I am ready to commence my equities trading operation. Thanks.

Good point, and exactly why we offer this, after the basics, you can get involved in a one on one or other mentoring group.

Geez, so much hassle about a $750 class that has helped so many over the years. As I've always maintained, Trading is not for Everyone, just those who can work hard, accept the facts of real training, and, oh yeah, have the benefits of a long term successful group.

Some of you are giving Maverick grief for his support of Top Step Patak, some have learned lessons from Vaccarro, Velez, Swift and that type of thing, and now some are giving me grief for not being a scam artist, as posted earlier.

Either choose to learn a lot about trading, or not. Up to you. Good luck..... It's just trading, and we've been doing it since 1978, I think we've done pretty well for our traders.

Don

 

[Maverick74]

Don, I see you've met my good friend gmst.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from Maverick74:

Don, I see you've met my good friend gmst.

Geez Mav, I just don't know. You can keep me as "honest as the day is blue" - and even though you're on leave right now, you showed your support when you came over here to test some new equities ideas. (Not "outing you" as you know, I have never mentioned it before you did).

It's like I've fallen into some weird bad dream. We've busted our ass to stay at the top of our industry, and have done our best to help new traders, and have the success to show for it.

I realize that there are little or no firms left out there in our segment (G2 and Echo, both of whom I support), and we have traders starting from both this week. I will ask them, and if they don't mind, to compare rates....as if that's going to make the difference. The interaction for those who need it, and the help for those who need that.

I'm catching a cold, getting older, and this is just kind of out of the blue. As we've discussed in the past "what are some of these people looking for anyway.?"

Anyway, thanks Mav....

Don