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Which Prop Firms provide the best mentorships and training?
- Thread starter Antihero1776
- Start date
Great post Mav, thanks.
I wonder if Don gets the part about, " I think it makes for an interesting discussion. Not sure if you want to have it, but it is interesting to discuss."
Jack
I wonder if Don gets the part about, " I think it makes for an interesting discussion. Not sure if you want to have it, but it is interesting to discuss."
Jack
Quote from Maverick74:
It's a great alternative model!!!! I agree. My point is at some point you are not going to make any money running it without it affecting the trader. I suspect that is what some of your detractors here are alluding to. Back in the day Don, we use to give our traders everything. And by everything, I mean EVERYTHING. Use your imagination. It cost us a fortune but we didn't care we were still making it. The problem is you are going to have to cut back services and pass on more and more fees. At some point, it's NOT a good alternative to traders. I think some of the guys here made some valid points. It's a lot like our government Don. When the times are good, nobody puts that money back into the firm to make things better. Then when times are tough, you realize you are driving a horse and carriage and everyone else around you is driving a Tesla. I think it makes for an interesting discussion. Not sure if you want to have it, but it is interesting to discuss.
Here is the bottom line. Any trader inquiring at a prop firm asking about training should ask for proof.
If a prop firm claims "everyone is making money" then show the PL's. No PL then it didnt happen.
Bright's mentors (some) claim they make extraordinary income. Maybe it is true but no PL is provided. They also prey on trainees by inplying "everyone is making money, it must be your structure". Sure, it might be your structure but is "everyone" really making money?
The mentoring is far from free. At one time, friends paid .011 per share to be in the mentoring groups. The mentoring Im told was not successful. Entire groups of traders failed.
Could be the industry norm but making outrageous claims of success is not only misleading but what it does is it keeps the new trader trading thinking "everyone is making money except me". That simple ploy keeps the trader at the table in these arcades.
If a prop firm claims "everyone is making money" then show the PL's. No PL then it didnt happen.
Bright's mentors (some) claim they make extraordinary income. Maybe it is true but no PL is provided. They also prey on trainees by inplying "everyone is making money, it must be your structure". Sure, it might be your structure but is "everyone" really making money?
The mentoring is far from free. At one time, friends paid .011 per share to be in the mentoring groups. The mentoring Im told was not successful. Entire groups of traders failed.
Could be the industry norm but making outrageous claims of success is not only misleading but what it does is it keeps the new trader trading thinking "everyone is making money except me". That simple ploy keeps the trader at the table in these arcades.
Quote from VinMan:
Here is the bottom line. Any trader inquiring at a prop firm asking about training should ask for proof.
If a prop firm claims "everyone is making money" then show the PL's. No PL then it didnt happen.
Bright's mentors (some) claim they make extraordinary income. Maybe it is true but no PL is provided. They also prey on trainees by inplying "everyone is making money, it must be your structure". Sure, it might be your structure but is "everyone" really making money?
The mentoring is far from free. At one time, friends paid .011 per share to be in the mentoring groups. The mentoring Im told was not successful. Entire groups of traders failed.
Could be the industry norm but making outrageous claims of success is not only misleading but what it does is it keeps the new trader trading thinking "everyone is making money except me". That simple ploy keeps the trader at the table in these arcades.
excellent... agree, thye want money from you, have them show you the money they "print"
Even without statistics, I believe there are 3 points that most accept as fact that explain the situation with today's retail prop biz:
1. The industry is in decline and has been for several years. To me this decline is explained by lost edge and ever lower and lower success rates among traders.
2. This decline is further explained by changes in the market, changes in trade decision support technologies and a complete lack of ability on the part of the shops to develop both technically and conceptually to not only deal with the changes but to take advantage of them. They just don't get it and without such change their fate/market share is not likely to change either.
3. Until these shops can demonstrate significant positive change in deal, training, and technology this decline and general malaise will likely continue.
For me, the only possible reason one would even consider these shops is leverage and leverage alone. That is if one has a proven approach to the markets that carries a very low maximum negative departure then there MIGHT be value but for the newbie - it is a death trap.
Doesn't it dawn on Don that the reason his shop is empty is because of him and his inability to keep up.
The clincher is this - if these guys had any combination of training and technology that produced any significant edge then they would be foolish to give traders 100% of their profits.
The facts of the prop shop model used by Don and others screams that they have no faith in their own teachings and gear to produce profits or they would claim some of them.
These days even the most obtuse newbie is beginning to see these points and until these guys develop something really useful in terms of either training or technology then they can rightly expect more of the same.
Jack
1. The industry is in decline and has been for several years. To me this decline is explained by lost edge and ever lower and lower success rates among traders.
2. This decline is further explained by changes in the market, changes in trade decision support technologies and a complete lack of ability on the part of the shops to develop both technically and conceptually to not only deal with the changes but to take advantage of them. They just don't get it and without such change their fate/market share is not likely to change either.
3. Until these shops can demonstrate significant positive change in deal, training, and technology this decline and general malaise will likely continue.
For me, the only possible reason one would even consider these shops is leverage and leverage alone. That is if one has a proven approach to the markets that carries a very low maximum negative departure then there MIGHT be value but for the newbie - it is a death trap.
Doesn't it dawn on Don that the reason his shop is empty is because of him and his inability to keep up.
The clincher is this - if these guys had any combination of training and technology that produced any significant edge then they would be foolish to give traders 100% of their profits.
The facts of the prop shop model used by Don and others screams that they have no faith in their own teachings and gear to produce profits or they would claim some of them.
These days even the most obtuse newbie is beginning to see these points and until these guys develop something really useful in terms of either training or technology then they can rightly expect more of the same.
Jack
Quote from JackDogII:
Even without statistics, I believe there are 3 points that most accept as fact that explain the situation with today's retail prop biz:
1. The industry is in decline and has been for several years. To me this decline is explained by lost edge and ever lower and lower success rates among traders.
2. This decline is further explained by changes in the market, changes in trade decision support technologies and a complete lack of ability on the part of the shops to develop both technically and conceptually to not only deal with the changes but to take advantage of them. They just don't get it and without such change their fate/market share is not likely to change either.
3. Until these shops can demonstrate significant positive change in deal, training, and technology this decline and general malaise will likely continue.
For me, the only possible reason one would even consider these shops is leverage and leverage alone. That is if one has a proven approach to the markets that carries a very low maximum negative departure then there MIGHT be value but for the newbie - it is a death trap.
Doesn't it dawn on Don that the reason his shop is empty is because of him and his inability to keep up.
The clincher is this - if these guys had any combination of training and technology that produced any significant edge then they would be foolish to give traders 100% of their profits.
The facts of the prop shop model used by Don and others screams that they have no faith in their own teachings and gear to porduce profits or they would claim some of them.
These days even the most obtuse newbie is beginning to see these points and until these guys develop something really useful in terms of either training or technology then they can rightly expect more of the same.
Jack
Well said.
You wont get a answer for this... just some subterfuge
Nah, no supterfuge here, but a simple point. Many traders just don't have a clue about how the markets work, simple market mechanics, we help with that. Some traders don't understand many things that we think are basics, we help with that. Some don't understand routing very well, we help with that. Some are fearful of what they don't understand.....we try like hell to help with that. Some expect easy money from trading, we explain, and show how, research and hard work is required. Some work better in teams, we offer that. We never promise blue sky, rose colored glasses, or anything else like that. Some choose to come right in and "leverage up" - we try try to stop that. This is hard enough even when well trained, why come in undertrained IMO.
We can teach you how others drive race cars, will you become a race car driver? I don't know, but I would think having access to those who drive fast will help.
Capital, daily updates, training, teams when needed. That's all guys. As I've always maintained, Trading is Not for Everyone.
All the best,
Don
edit; I've always kept our basic training completely separate from "joining the firm." Thus, my friends and competitors from Echo, Generic, Swift, etc. have sent people here for training. Very cheap, one price for life fee of $750 for ET'ers and Vegas locals. Sorry if we don't fit everyone's visual of what they think they want, LOL.
We can teach you how others drive race cars, will you become a race car driver? I don't know, but I would think having access to those who drive fast will help.
Capital, daily updates, training, teams when needed. That's all guys. As I've always maintained, Trading is Not for Everyone.
All the best,
Don
edit; I've always kept our basic training completely separate from "joining the firm." Thus, my friends and competitors from Echo, Generic, Swift, etc. have sent people here for training. Very cheap, one price for life fee of $750 for ET'ers and Vegas locals. Sorry if we don't fit everyone's visual of what they think they want, LOL.