Which prop firms aren't a joke?

[riddler]

most prop firms encourage churning,nothing wrong with that because its how they make money. however,a very good trader will ignore that bs and just do his thing and be profitable. unfortunately most day traders (in the end) resort to gambling "just to break even or just to get their 10k back". i've seen it a million times.
don't get me wrong i have seen a few do well but in all honesty most lose alot of moeny and then try and come back with a new outlook and new discipline. the ending is always the same though.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from Insurinator:

I'm not looking to trade anyone elses money... I would be in terms of leverage, as is the point of all prop firms. I would always assume to take all the risk while using the firms leverage.
I see no issue in placing capital into the firm so that while you are trading their money in terms of leverage the actual cushion for losses if provided by you the trader. A prop firm should never have to take the risk in order to make a successful trader, that's just dumb business.

I can't understand how they wouldn't make piles of money offering in house education for free, lowering desk fees, yet letting the trader use the prop firms leverage with the traders personal capital as a cushion. This way I'm sure you would have a lot more traders comming in your door and because of that you would have more successful ones. You could even catch a moron you attempted to educate, who thinks it would be great to leverage a trade 100:1 and have it end up a winning trade. If the trade is lost the prop firm loses nothing.

The prop firm would make tons of money either way, the advantage this way is that the prop firm would actually show sincerity about educating traders instead of trying to rip them off and caring less about if they are successful or not.

Charging education, flat rate desk fees regardless of profit, and %10 - %40 commissions just shows pure greed and a "who gives a shit" attitude about making their traders successful.

most traders don't have a pot to piss in.
on a 100to 1 leverage a 1% moves wipes out the capital.

what piles of money are u talking about? tons of money?
one clueless one suggested opening a bd for $50,000
what clearing firm in its right mind would do business with this firm?

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Insurinator:

I have been looking around at prop firms and attending webinars for a few of them just to see what information they provide, and gain a little insight as to how they work.

I basically come away with the thought that they are businesses that provide leverage at your expense only and leech money from you. Other than that, the knowledge you may gain at a prop firm from a professional trader is the only advantage, and that doesn't mean that your guaranteed to make money.

A lot of them require absurd education fees. The ones that don't charge for education, require office desk fees which are not reasonable for smaller traders seeing as how many traders they can house.

Are there any prop firms that would allow you to trade remotely and openly allow you to gain education whether it be online or going in the office for no charge?

My issue with the firms I've seen so far is that they charge so heavily it makes you question whether they are really wishing for you to be successful for them or if they just want to take your money and run. When you are successful for them... 30% of your profits certainly could offset even a very successful trader.

I love you guys who want everything free, or at a cost of next to nothing. I question if some of you comprehend what running a business entails. Any, and all businesses, have expenses that need to be covered.

If you're so opposed to how prop firms operate then save up your $$$ and trade retail.

Seems the reality is that most here come to the table with very little $$$ to trade with. I started with $90K back in 1996. If you don't have the necessary capital (whether prop or retail) to trade you have little chance of ever succeeding.

 

[zerosum111]

Like I said, about 10% actually make it in most prop shops. So it just takes a lot of hard work to get to the opportunity beyond the high commissions etc... From my experience probably only the ones who succeed in those situations are the ones who are actually cut out for it anyways.

 

[Insurinator]

Quote from zdreg:

most traders don't have a pot to piss in.
on a 100to 1 leverage a 1% moves wipes out the capital.

what piles of money are u talking about? tons of money?
one clueless one suggested opening a bd for $50,000
what clearing firm in its right mind would do business with this firm?

I'm talking about the piles of money they make anyways because they have nothing to lose. When you can't lose anything but have unlimited potential for gain, you will make absurd amounts of money.

When you offer someone 500:1 leverage but say "if you lose anything it comes out of your pocket" but "if you make something we get 30% of it".

Traders don't trade with $10 to make money. 40% - 10% profits off any number of traders is sufficient enough to make money. Like I said, the traders are not making pocket change when they profit in a prop firm so the prop firm is making piles of cash.

Charging 10k for education and $1500 a month to sit at a desk is just greed fees.

 

[Insurinator]

Quote from DHOHHI:

I love you guys who want everything free, or at a cost of next to nothing. I question if some of you comprehend what running a business entails. Any, and all businesses, have expenses that need to be covered.

If you're so opposed to how prop firms operate then save up your $$$ and trade retail.

Seems the reality is that most here come to the table with very little $$$ to trade with. I started with $90K back in 1996. If you don't have the necessary capital (whether prop or retail) to trade you have little chance of ever succeeding.

I don't want anything for free. I don't want to be ripped off either. 10k for looking over a professionals shoulder and them giving you less than a book worth of information is not worth 10k because it doesn't mean you will trade successfully after learning from them.

Yes business's have expenses to cover which is what the 10% - 40% far beyond covers in any half decent prop firm. It doesn't matter if half the traders in the firm blow their accounts, they are still making winning trades some of the time and the winning trades in any prop firm aren't pocket change.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Insurinator:

I don't want anything for free. I don't want to be ripped off either. 10k for looking over a professionals shoulder and them giving you less than a book worth of information is not worth 10k because it doesn't mean you will trade successfully after learning from them.

Training costs can be negotiable. I told the firm I started with in 1996 I wasn't interested in their training at $5K. I said I was set with what I knew already. They understood that either they accepted that or I'd walk and find another firm. I started trading with them the following week.

On the other hand if a newbie really doesn't understand the market then he can be a big burden to a trader if he/she is peering over their shoulder throughout the day.

I don't think someone with minimal basketball exposure would expect Lebron James to "mentor" them for free and expect that they'll be playing at the Pro level within a year. Bringing something to the table -- whether it be a guy who played ball in college -- or a trader who's bounced around a bit with marginal success lends itself to a higher probability of succeeding down the road.