Which Prop CME Futures Firm?

[s0mmi]

Did you migrate from futures to trading stocks? I seem to recall you as a futures (treasuries?) trader.

Those who make 3-10K per day on stocks without even trying - what's their strategy and account size?

I'm in Cryptocurrency now, but we have to deal with the extremely low volatility for a while, and the hours are 24/7 so it's brutal. It's been a snooze-fest... waiting for Bitcoin to get to $100k

For Stonks, I've seen heaps of videos. All you do for Stonks is put up:
1. VWAP
2. A quick moving average (9-ema, 21-ema)

And that's it. You use VWAP as a level (support/resistance) or for a Bias. And if the stock is moving fast, you lean on the quick moving average as a level.

To prepare every day, you should have a list of the potential stocks in play. Spend 5-minutes on each Stock and just mark out the big Hourly + Daily levels so you can see them, just incase you intra-day trade it.

The entire edge of Stonks is very very very easy to make money off because you are guaranteed to get volume and action in the first 1.5 hours of opening.

Set a filter for RVOL > 3.0 (Relative Volume) ... also look at the highest Gapper % for the Day etc. Play around with them I guess, there are lots of people on youtube who share their filters

The hard thing about Crypto is that it can be dead for 18hrs a day and then does a move when you sleep, so you've wasted your whole week waiting around.

Stocks are easy mode trading. I have seen people who can't make money in Futures, spreads, or Crypto, go to stocks and start making money in their first month. It's really, really easy.

The edge in stocks, is because of the "Stop and Start" function of the Equity market. You start in the morning, there's a gap, and volume must be done. And then theres a close.

Its obvious that every single Stock trader looks at the Gap up, or Gap down in the following day. If it's usually with-in 2%, the Gap statistically fills most of the time (I think 80% of the time). If the gap is more than 2%, statistically its more likely to keep going. And that's all you need to know.. use VWAP or the MA's as support or resistance, try to keep risk tight with the candle play and you're good to go.

In CME and other futures, they have start-and-stop functions but because the CME is a giant scam with all the spoofing and insider edge, then you have no chance compared to stocks.

Don't sleep on the opportunity to trade Shares...

I honestly thought that Crypto would be infinitely better than Stocks because of the extreme volatility, but through-out 2019 and 2020, we have seen the absolute destruction of every Altcoin as soon as Bitcoin dumps. Imagine a 24/7 market, the highest volatility in the world, yet it still had periods of 1-3 months at a time where the action was soooooooo low you want to kill yourself.

I have never seen such a lull period in stocks for longer than a week or two. There seems to be a new "stock in play" every day of the week, for the 5 days the market is open.

Let me know how it goes for you!

 

[Laissez Faire]

I'm in Cryptocurrency now, but we have to deal with the extremely low volatility for a while, and the hours are 24/7 so it's brutal. It's been a snooze-fest... waiting for Bitcoin to get to $100k

Interesting. This raises further questions. Feel free to ignore or PM me if you prefer that.

1. Why did you move from futures? From what I remember - you were doing well. Did you lose your edge or did you just decide opportunity was better in crypto?

2. If you're 'in' crypto - does that mean you're not trading stocks yourself? Is so - why?

The entire edge of Stonks is very very very easy to make money off because you are guaranteed to get volume and action in the first 1.5 hours of opening.

In CME and other futures, they have start-and-stop functions but because the CME is a giant scam with all the spoofing and insider edge, then you have no chance compared to stocks.

Don't sleep on the opportunity to trade Shares...

Let me know how it goes for you!

Very informative post. Thank you.

The idea of some instrument or asset class being easier to trade than others is something I've asked around about several times and I'm getting different answers. I have talked with two ES traders who traded stocks prior to that and didn't feel there were any differences in terms of which were easiest. I talked to another trader who failed in ES, but became very profitable trading something which moved slower in the European futures market.

FWIW, I'm profitable day trading ES now, but have many times wondered if there'd be easier ways to make money.

Not sure how easy it would be for me to trade stocks in the US either. I'm in Norway. Stocks would require access to leverage as well. Futures takes care of all that by default.

 

[DrCornwallis]

That works up until a point. That point is usually when you "feel" that your account is about to get wiped out.

True prop firms probably don't want people like that working for them?

Probably not.

100% algo like rationality will likely be the order of the day at most firms....

......but like I said, for every valid setup you can find aiming in one direction, I could find another aiming in the opposite direction. How does one differentiate on which thesis to run with, and it usually isn't so obvious, which is why most traders, lose.

There is an Armenian trader based in the UK called Andre Minassian. He is ~100% intuition. He thinks that technical analysis doesn't work. Check him out on Twitter. His predictions and general market calls are alarmingly good......just don't try to converse with him unless you are willing to just sit and kiss his butt.

 

[DrCornwallis]

Have decided that the notion of a Trailing Draw Down limit that runs up with un-booked mid trade profits, is completely and utterly beyond the pale......it is almost as though these firms want you to fail so they can just keep taking subscription fees off hapless wannabe traders. (I guess there is a very simple explanation for that which requires just two words,)

.....which pretty much leaves TopStep, who instead force traders into far too large size with Full-Sized contracts, or into too small positions by giving micro contracts the same limits as the minis.

.......or I have noticed that LMI state they calculate the Trailing Draw Down on an end of day basis.......although the LMI thread full of single post rave reviews from users mostly called 'Alexei, or Sergey, isn't a ringing endorsement tbh.

Anyone know of any more online prop firms that have a sensible Trailing Draw Down policy, that are also CME futures focused?

Another member mentioned UK based FTMO...does look a better system across the board, but would require me to make the mental jump back to currencies, and I have only just started to get (very) proficient with the Dow and Gold futures....(don't say there is no difference, cos there is, especially for those who dwell on 5 minute and 1 minute charts).

 

[s0mmi]

Interesting. This raises further questions. Feel free to ignore or PM me if you prefer that.

1. Why did you move from futures? From what I remember - you were doing well. Did you lose your edge or did you just decide opportunity was better in crypto?

2. If you're 'in' crypto - does that mean you're not trading stocks yourself? Is so - why?



Very informative post. Thank you.

The idea of some instrument or asset class being easier to trade than others is something I've asked around about several times and I'm getting different answers. I have talked with two ES traders who traded stocks prior to that and didn't feel there were any differences in terms of which were easiest. I talked to another trader who failed in ES, but became very profitable trading something which moved slower in the European futures market.

FWIW, I'm profitable day trading ES now, but have many times wondered if there'd be easier ways to make money.

Not sure how easy it would be for me to trade stocks in the US either. I'm in Norway. Stocks would require access to leverage as well. Futures takes care of all that by default.

1. Risk/Reward in Crypto is a gift from heaven. Inefficient space, extreme volatility. It's like taking candy from a baby.
Risk 1 unit to try make 10x to 100x
Example: If you make 10x on ETH, and then that makes 5x on BTC, and then BTC goes 10x from here... you've made 500x upside.
In the best case scenario I don't think you'll find Amazon or Apple giving you 10x, let alone potential 500x...

It rewards those who are willing to research and seek information, collect and analyze it by yourself. The upside is huge for a retail investor.

2. I have never traded Stocks, but because I had to learn Outright trading (I used to do spreading remember).... I visited many tutorial videos on trading across the internet. I had to try emulate the Stock traders' approach to trading, but it is very different in Crypto.

For day-trading, Stocks is much better and easier. I watch many live streams when I'm bored, it's so easy. If Crypto was not around I would 100% be doing stocks. I don't know why everyone here is wasting their time trading Forex or Futures indexes when you can literally copy/paste strategies from people on YouTube...
They all use the same filter and it works. Filter for high RVOL (3.0) or High % gappers... your edge is huge, as you're only trading the most active stock of the day and managers must do their volume in that 1-2 hour window. It's basically "cheat mode" compared to any other asset class.

But for investing in a long-term horizon, Crypto takes the cake hands down. But this is very much in context with the environment of the market... because Crypto had a 2-3 year vicious bear market of constant dumping. In 1-2 years I'm sure the picture will be different.

When Bitcoin peaks and the bubble pops, you need to basically walk away from the industry for 1-2 years before considering an investment again.

Of course, everything about the Crypto cycle is very controversial. Most people don't even believe Bitcoin will get to $20,000 again... let alone $100,000...

So yes, I am betting against the grain. If you bet against the grain in traditional stocks, you're not going to get an upside of 10x...50x... not even close..

 

[DrCornwallis]

But for investing in a long-term horizon, Crypto takes the cake hands down. But this is very much in context with the environment of the market... because Crypto had a 2-3 year vicious bear market of constant dumping. In 1-2 years I'm sure the picture will be different.

I have had Bitcoin accounts robbed, twice, in as many weeks. Once blatantly by the exchange (Bitfinex) and the other time, most likely by rats operating within the exchange (Kraken)......Offices in San Francisco, Servers in Hong Kong, registered in British Virgin Islands........who ya gonna call?

.....so there is that.

and if you think of the amount of Bitcoin/crypto exchanges that have just vanished with everyone's money.

 

[s0mmi]

I have had Bitcoin accounts robbed, twice, in as many weeks. Once blatantly by the exchange (Bitfinex) and the other time, most likely by rats operating within the exchange (Kraken)......Offices in San Francisco, Servers in Hong Kong, registered in British Virgin Islands........who ya gonna call?

.....so there is that.

and if you think of the amount of Bitcoin/crypto exchanges that have just vanished with everyone's money.

Everyone uses their own wallet to store Crypto.

There is a famous saying; "Not your keys, not your Bitcoin."

Bitcoin is extremely scarce and there are only ever going to be 21 million so of course it's going to be the most hunted thing on earth.

 

[DrCornwallis]

Bitcoin is extremely scarce.

So is the shit that comes out of my ass.

 

[Laissez Faire]

1. Risk/Reward in Crypto is a gift from heaven. Inefficient space, extreme volatility. It's like taking candy from a baby.
Risk 1 unit to try make 10x to 100x
Example: If you make 10x on ETH, and then that makes 5x on BTC, and then BTC goes 10x from here... you've made 500x upside.
In the best case scenario I don't think you'll find Amazon or Apple giving you 10x, let alone potential 500x...

It rewards those who are willing to research and seek information, collect and analyze it by yourself. The upside is huge for a retail investor.

Very intriguing.

Are you swing trading or day trading? How about liquidity? Can you get in and out when you want?

I have never traded Stocks, but because I had to learn Outright trading (I used to do spreading remember).... I visited many tutorial videos on trading across the internet. I had to try emulate the Stock traders' approach to trading, but it is very different in Crypto.

For day-trading, Stocks is much better and easier. I watch many live streams when I'm bored, it's so easy. If Crypto was not around I would 100% be doing stocks. I don't know why everyone here is wasting their time trading Forex or Futures indexes when you can literally copy/paste strategies from people on YouTube...
They all use the same filter and it works. Filter for high RVOL (3.0) or High % gappers... your edge is huge, as you're only trading the most active stock of the day and managers must do their volume in that 1-2 hour window. It's basically "cheat mode" compared to any other asset class.

Interesting stuff. Thanks.

I swing traded stocks and made quite decent returns doing so, but was 'stupid' enough to get into day trading futures. LOL. After many years of hard work I'm finally seeing results. But I'm sure there are easier ways to make money than day trading index futures.

Staying with my main strategy for now, but open to adding other strategies later on.

Thanks again.

 

[TheIcon]

1. Risk/Reward in Crypto is a gift from heaven. Inefficient space, extreme volatility. It's like taking candy from a baby.
Risk 1 unit to try make 10x to 100x
Example: If you make 10x on ETH, and then that makes 5x on BTC, and then BTC goes 10x from here... you've made 500x upside.
In the best case scenario I don't think you'll find Amazon or Apple giving you 10x, let alone potential 500x...

It rewards those who are willing to research and seek information, collect and analyze it by yourself. The upside is huge for a retail investor.

2. I have never traded Stocks, but because I had to learn Outright trading (I used to do spreading remember).... I visited many tutorial videos on trading across the internet. I had to try emulate the Stock traders' approach to trading, but it is very different in Crypto.

For day-trading, Stocks is much better and easier. I watch many live streams when I'm bored, it's so easy. If Crypto was not around I would 100% be doing stocks. I don't know why everyone here is wasting their time trading Forex or Futures indexes when you can literally copy/paste strategies from people on YouTube...
They all use the same filter and it works. Filter for high RVOL (3.0) or High % gappers... your edge is huge, as you're only trading the most active stock of the day and managers must do their volume in that 1-2 hour window. It's basically "cheat mode" compared to any other asset class.

But for investing in a long-term horizon, Crypto takes the cake hands down. But this is very much in context with the environment of the market... because Crypto had a 2-3 year vicious bear market of constant dumping. In 1-2 years I'm sure the picture will be different.

When Bitcoin peaks and the bubble pops, you need to basically walk away from the industry for 1-2 years before considering an investment again.

Of course, everything about the Crypto cycle is very controversial. Most people don't even believe Bitcoin will get to $20,000 again... let alone $100,000...

So yes, I am betting against the grain. If you bet against the grain in traditional stocks, you're not going to get an upside of 10x...50x... not even close..

How do you feel about trading the Binance Futures products like stocks? Seems like there is always Defi perps moving. I'm building myself to be a multi-crypto trader as I see trading strictly only BTC/ETH can have major flaws as you described with the painful lack of volatility at times.