Which is the most important Commandment of the Western God?

...all of which bullshit proves the point..

...and quite obviously as a Troll you won't have the free will not to respond.


Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

"It's a very unimaginative cruel minded God..."

I supposed I might entertain the same thoughts as stu if I were not free to think otherwise...

The life of stu is the life of someone who feels constantly victimized by life and the non choices and non will he thinks is his position.

It is a delusion of his own mind, a product of his own mind and own will, but if he put himself in such a cage of his own creation and still has the key to get out, it reduces the compassion and pity for someone who plays the victim by their own decision...self pity does have its benefits in perpetuating the cycle and refusing to change. Not only that, stu never has to mature and can blame God until his dying day...rather than take any personal responsibility to exercise his own will. Like some fat man who dies of heart failure from clogged arteries because he refused to change his diet (mind) and refused to exercise his body (will).

Imagine a life condemned to hating God against the natural inner will and instinct to love God...

Not for me mind you, but apparently stu believes he has no choice in the matter to liberate himself or his mind from the pathetic condition he has put himself in...

How about one big collective "Poor stu, so sad for you..."
 
By your logic, I had no choice but to respond...since there is no free will and all of that garbage...

Love that cardboard box you put yourself in...oh wait, you think you had no choice but to put yourself in that box...

Quote from stu:

...all of which bullshit proves the point..

...and quite obviously as a Troll you won't have the free will not to respond.
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I know it is obvious, but for those who don't know how it works...

stu has no free will in what he posts, he has no choice but to post the slobber below.

He is forced against his will and choice to write what he writes, to believe what he believes and to do what he does.

Pity the man because he feels very much a prisoner in life, fated to all that he does and is done to him by the laws of a condition that is without freedom of will, fettered bound and gagged by the non will and forced actions...

I knew there had to be a reason I liked you ZZZzzzzzzz. You would have saved me a post against Stu the Heathen if I didn't have time to respond.
 
'thous shalt not kill" is obviously the most important of the ten.


ps there were TWENTY" , 10 on each tablet but Moses dropped and broke the 2nd tablet :D

Assuming 20, what would the other 10 be?? :confused:
 
Quote from oktiri:

Your "argument" shows the fallacy of Atheism as a doctrine. "Treating" God as if he Were a Human

Atheism thinks there is no god, so clearly as a non-existent figment of dullards' imagination, he cannot be treated as human or anything else.

Our point is even in the incredibly unlikely event that god did exist, nothing about him would arouse admiration or respect, let alone worship. Rather, contempt and scorn would be the approriate response.

Even if god existed, Satan would be more worthy of respect.
 
Quote from stu:

No it isn't. Free will is fettered and therefore cannot be free. It is refutable and therefore deniable.

Posturing free will to excuse a deity from blame is no more than self-serving contradiction . Any omnipotent God worth its salt makes arrangements for good against evil without the need for evil.


Then there is no free will. Free will would be heaven or not , hell or not , anything else or not. A will that is free has no other circumstances or pre-conditions attached to it. Otherwise it is not FREE.
Free will is not the same as free choice and neither truly exist.

stu is right AGAIN!

if someone held a gun against your head and said do this or...

is that true free will?? is that true CHOICE? or is that the worst kind of coerced "choice"? you be the judge.

i know what i think! :eek:
 
Quote from stu:

"Free will -- according to ...." is not free will.
That is no more than non-free limited choice.

You want to split hairs with me Stu? Ok, that is fine with me. There is a time for casuistry, and this seems like a very good time. I see you remember what I told you the last time we crossed swords. "Life is in the details" as Albert Einstein said. Very good! 2 points for you. I will buy your argument here, but it really goes without saying that when one discusses free will for limited beings like ourselves one is really talking about just limited choice. Absolute free will which you erroneously thought I was talking about can only be discussed for Aristotle's Prime Mover.

For all your "metaphysical and esoteric philosophical " high mindedness, you could at least be honest. You've not even thought through what free will would really be , have you ?

No, I couldn't do that Stu. I needed your help on this very abstruse subject. I am too stupid!

In that case there would be no point in living as your God directs existence within the limitations of nature - "red in tooth and claw".

First of all, you haven't even defined the word "God" Stu? What is the transcendental God of metaphysics Stu? And now you already know what I mean already when I use the word "God" to refer to a transcendental God.
A personal God is only an illusion for children there is no such thing. My transcendental God doesn't direct existence that would be a contradiction in terms.
A transcendental being can not direct anything or else it is no longer transcendental so maybe there is a point in living and even absolute free will may be attainable since one's free will is a variable and its quantity is not impeded by a transcendental being. Can this variable called free will approach infinity for a human being so that one's free will become bona fide free will or absolute free will? Maybe, and I am not going to explain how that is possible in a public forum so don't ask Stu.



No it does not. Free will means humans would be able to do good things as well as bad things without another’s will being impinged . Being subject to another’s will against your own, means your own will is not free. The way things are there is not free will.

Correct again Stu. I am impressed! 2 points again for you. You must have been eating your wheaties today or did you just move up from a class B chess player to a class A player?
But remember what I wrote earlier. I was using the words "free will" in common parlance. I wasn't expecting such learned observations on free will and especially from you Stu judging from my last discussion with you. Looks like you have been doing your homework. I stand corrected by you Stu. What I was really talking about was limited free will -- not absolute free will and as you correctly pointed out limited free will is really an oxymoron. I indicated that by writing that "everyone has free will according to his present nature" which really means "limited choice" as you pointed out -- not free will or else I would have written that everyone has free will period end stop.


It's a very unimaginative cruel minded God which allows one person's free will to devastate another person’s will.

Here we go again. A transcendental God by definition doesn't interfere in the material world. The material world structure that He set up stands or doesn't stand. It is all a matter of understanding the chemistry in metaphysics. If one knows the chemistry one can synthesize different compounds or break the structure. If one doesn't know chemistry than one is stuck with what materials are readily available, and the existing structure. You want absolute free will? You can't have it Stu except through an esoteric indirect approach that I discussed earlier, and I am not going to get into that. Why can't you have absolute free will? Because that would violate God's attribute of omnipotence. Another being with absolute free will can not exist because a being with absolute free will is God by definition, and there can not exist two or more because they will conflict with each other (see Maimonides' Guide of The Perplexed for further clarifications on this important topic in metaphysics http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/index.htm).

Any omnipotent God which allows choice without allowing the freedom not be affected by it, is a God which has a malign and evil direction on all existence.

I am not sure what you are saying here, but if you want other beings besides God to have absolute free will then you are asking for something that can not exist as I explained above. Similarly God can not clone himself, make a God greater than Himself, or destroy Himself. These are all impossibilities, and they do not violate God's attribute of omnipotence because by omnipotence as it refers to God it means He can do anything possible, but not do things that are outright impossible. For example, the transcendental God of metaphysics is not alive to begin with (nor is he dead) so how can He destroy Himself?



 
Quote from killthesunshine:

'thous shalt not kill" is obviously the most important of the ten.

What? The opposite is true. Killing mortal enemies is the sole reason that civilisation and the free world is intact. Without horrifically murdering German and Japanese grandmothers and babies in firestorms terrible enough to melt the flesh off their faces, and boil them alive, we would all be goosestepping and speaking German.

Killing is, in many cases, noble, right, and necessary. Any belief system saying otherwise is clearly nonsensical and inimical to survival.
 
killing is never noble.

if we all adopted the precept thou shalt not kill we'd have to find another way, wouldn't we.

everyone has but ONE life. lives are not interchangeable. once gone that specific 'spirit' cannot be replaced.

religion DIMINISHES life it fools us into believing there is smthg better, greater than what you have right now. how can you be so sure?
 
If God existed the way you define God, of course a western thinking human response would be similar to yours...

The focus by the ET atheists is of course on the Juedeo/Christian/Islamic concept of God. All born in the middle eastern area of the world coincidentally.

The eastern part of the world came to different understandings of God, which makes the arguments by the ET atheists as God being cruel laughable...

Many religions accept cause and effect as a universal, and many accept reincarnation (many speculate the the early Christians also accepted this idea but the church leaders eliminated the idea of transmigration of the soul because it is harder to manipulate the masses through fear without the concept of Heaven and Hell coming to a soul that was created...not a soul that is eternal and eternally moving through all the species again and again), so when they see that people suffer in life, it is not the fault of God to rescue them from the suffering, as they are only reaping the consequences of previous lives...

In these non western non Abrahamic religions, there are no victims of God...as God does not punish or reward the karmas (actions) of people on some whim or human level of decision making. Everyone gets exactly as they deserve based on their past performance. The system is 100% fair, and God does not interfere in the process of justice and the law of cause and effect.

Souls sew, souls reap what they have sewn, in this life, or the next, ad infinitum...until such time that a soul is liberated from the bondage of the eternal cycle of birth and death.

Quote from Cutten:

Atheism thinks there is no god, so clearly as a non-existent figment of dullards' imagination, he cannot be treated as human or anything else.

Our point is even in the incredibly unlikely event that god did exist, nothing about him would arouse admiration or respect, let alone worship. Rather, contempt and scorn would be the approriate response.

Even if god existed, Satan would be more worthy of respect.
 
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