Which is the most important Commandment of the Western God?
- Thread starter ZZZzzzzzzz
- Start date
I didn't state what my faith or philosophy of life is as you understand it. One of my late teachers always said that one does not throw pearls to swine. This is why I referred you to areas outside of my post for further elucidation as to what I meant. One does not discuss metaphysical or esoteric philosophical subjects with the uninitiated and then even it is done only by adumbrations and allusions.
And you are contradicting yourself by telling me that you are not going to argue with my faith whatever it is given that it is the product of MY "flawed and limited ... mind." If you were true to your feelings you should be ignoring me if that is the case -- not engaging in ad hominem attack against me. Go ahead insult me if you wish, but you should know that I thought you were above this nonsense, and you really had something worthwhile to state. I guess it just goes to show that whoever came up with the proverb, "Distance lends enchantment and familiarity breeds contempt [for cretins]" was a very wise person.
I am really into ethics -- not faith. Actions speak much louder than words or prayer, meditation, or beliefs for the religiously inclined. Imitatos Deos is a really an ethical concept -- not a faith based concept. For all I care one may believe in the tooth fairy, but if one does the right thing one is worthy. If you do the right thing it doesn't matter much to me what stupidities you may utter ZZZzzzzzzz. I would consider you righteous! On the other hand it is also known that an ignoramus can not be righteous.
So tell me ZZZzzzzzzz what do you really believe in or is that an abstruse area of thought even in general for you so I apologize for asking the question in the first place and take it back.
BTW, thank you very much for telling me that I know nothing. You just placed me on par with Socrates, a high honor indeed!
***Bingo!***
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1531219&highlight=kennel#post1531219
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Let's say you owned a kennel with many dogs.
As the kennel owner you have near absolute control over the quality of life your dogs experience. Would you choose to give your dogs decent, nutritional food, or would you keep some of them in starvation? Would you inoculate them against preventable diseases, or would you prefer that they live in misery with heartworm, intestinal parasites & rabies? Would you let 6 million of your beloved dogs be gassed/starved/shot/tortured to death by nazis, or would you never allow something so horrible to occur?
That's why I say that if God does in fact exist, he's a cruel heartless sadist.
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Your "argument" shows the fallacy of Atheism as a doctrine. "Treating" God as if he Were a Human. Applying our moral standards to him, he's omnipotent, all knowing, and created the earth of us to TEST us. you can fucking pretty much do with your life as you want, and I hope he grades on a curve since we're all born to different circumstances (Paris Hilton vs Poor kid in Africa), yet FREE WILL is undeniable.
Just as you can't have winners without losers, Failure being the evil twin of failure (Just imagine all trades being "wins", it doesn't make sense). What would heaven be without Hell. From a micro-perspective, The World seems unfair and unbelievably cruel. With some distance, both in terms of time and Geography, it all makes sense.
The pleasure of a one night stand vs the pain of carrying aids for the rest of your life. The enjoyable puff on a cigarette vs the depressing possibility of lung cancer.
The birth of the Jewish faith itself and the Jewish people by extension is a PRODUCT of suffering. Had The Egyptians treated them well, there would never have been Judaism, Yet, Does that justify The Egyptians in their treatment of the Jews , ABSOLUTELY NOT.
God , or Nature if you want replicates this "Behavior" in multiple aspects of life. The larva that becomes a butterfly, the real pain inflicted by a Mom during labor, Oh wait, nobody should have children, it's painful !
You were not the only people targeted for destruction, The Mayas, The Aztecs, Native Indians are all holocausts driven to "completion". There is nothing about the Holocaust that makes it a unique thing in human experience, as horrible as it was.
Yet, many can argue, quite convincingly, that without the Shoah, there might be no State of Israel right now. No pain, no Gain. Without the persecution of Christian puritans, there would be no United States.
God is not responsible for the holocaust, the Nazis are. Did God let the holocaust happen ? SURE but it's only unfathomable if you think it all ends at death. After all if life ended a few months before Graduation, nobody would go to college, because we'd be better off working at McDonalds flipping burgers and making "money", yet College makes sense only a few years down the road, financially speaking.
An infinitely "slow" process, by your perception, is not non-existent, you just can't perceive it. you don't get to decide the trial date, he does.
I'm fucking tired of knowing Madoff is sleeping every night in his Park Avenue shed. Yet, I'm rational enough to know he'll pay. if you can wait for NY prosecutors , be some more with the Lord,
There, I just destroyed your whole ARGUMENT about the non-existence of God. Stop blaming God for the holocaust, and in a way, The holocaust is no different than the first and the second destruction of the temple. When you break the covenant, you'll pay the price. He told you so.
Why do you compare dogs to human beings. A dog is a servile fawning creature. Why don't you compare human beings to gorillas for example, a free, wild, and intelligent creature.
If you created them do you want to cuddle them so they become servile fawning dogs or do you want to demonstrate their true beauty and majesty in the jungle?
Being a wild gorilla may seem as a very harsh existence. A wild gorilla constanty has to search for food, is exposed to the elements, needs to fight against other gorillas for food and dominance, and worst of all must survive the hunting of human poachers, but the animal is happy. It lives in the present, and readily accepts these challenges as the price it has to pay for its freedom and express its nature without cursing God as you whiners are doing if things don't turn out as you wish in your life.
What's the point of living if God were to direct our very existence? Free will means that humans can do bad things as well as good things. God did not commit the Holocaust nor did he do anything to prevent it. Why should he? He gave us free will. We can live by it or hang ourselves by it.
He didn't even create most of the disease that you talk about. Again human beings are the culprits here for failing to follow sanitary conditions. You jump off the Empire State Building what do you expect? That God is going to catch you in his hand? No, you will experience the law of gravity and Newton's Third Law when you hit the ground. Your massive force will hit the ground, and the ground will push you back so in the process your body will become mashed potatoes. What is the lesson here? Don't blame God for your idiocy in trying to prove that nothing deleterious will happen to you if you go against the laws of nature.
Even within the laws of nature where natural disasters happen such as earthquakes, tidal waves, volcanoes one can not complain. This is life! You either accept as the price you pay for your freedom and self-actualization as impressive gorillas or lions do or you go around as grumblers and complainers cursing God and the day you were born and everything else in the world.
Your choice -- everyone has free will according to his present nature.
Well Oktiri, I must say you are finally starting to talk some sense.
What a transformation?? The slimy caterpillar becomes almost a beautiful butterfly. A few hours ago you were a Hamas Man, and you put me on your ignore list (wink wink) for calling you that and proving the irrationality of your arguments.
Miracles will never cease!
But do try to drop the vulgarities! Your arguments will be taken more seriously. Profanities are for people that don't know how to express themselves properly in speech or writing and try to project an air of toughness as compensation. A resolute person has no need to project his toughness through vulgarities. That thinking is the product of an inferior mind hence expletives are for vulgar or base crude people. You do want to complete your transformation into a beautiful butterfly? Don't you?
Just some friendly advice from your "fucking prick" in this forum who also happens to be on your ignore list (wink wink).
P.S. What is unique about the Holocaust is not the genocide of a people as you seem to think, but what Hitler and the Nazi elite said about their struggle against the Jews, and the fact that they tried to bring back the Teutonic idolatry of old after nineteen centuries of Christianity in Europe.
Hitler told his people:
Providence has ordained that I should be the greatest liberator of humanity. I am freeing man from the restraints of an intelligence that has taken charge, from the dirty and degrading self-mortifications of a false vision known as conscience and morality, and from the demands of a freedom and personal independence which only a very few can bear.
Herman Rauchning had been Hitlerâs personal confidante, but he abandoned Nazism and attempted to alert the free world to the scope and danger of the Nazi threat. He wrote:
It is against their own insoluble problem of being human that the dull and base in humanity are in revolt in anti-Semitism. Nevertheless Judaism, together with Hellenism and Christianity, is an inalienable component of our Christian Western Civilization â the eternal "call to Sinai," against which humanity again and again rebels.
[from: The Beast From the Abyss, by Hermann Rauchning]
This "call to Sinai" â the message entrusted to and borne by the Jews â ultimately transforms the world. Yet it is this very message that draws forth the wrath of those who would give their last ounce of strength to resist it. See Why The Jews? -- The World's Longest Hatred http://www.aish.com/seminars/whythejews/
Hitler was a true Nazi or Amalekite -- something very very very rare in the world. It is my delicacy among delicacies, my pleasure among pleasures, my raison d'etre. I know I am sick sick sick in your view and the vast majority of the people out there, but the world needs a few sickos like myself too, and anyway seeking self-approval from equals or inferiors is a negative character trait.
You can't make a good steak without adding some hot spices in it too. Can you?
No it isn't. Free will is fettered and therefore cannot be free. It is refutable and therefore deniable.
Posturing free will to excuse a deity from blame is no more than self-serving contradiction . Any omnipotent God worth its salt makes arrangements for good against evil without the need for evil.
Then there is no free will. Free will would be heaven or not , hell or not , anything else or not. A will that is free has no other circumstances or pre-conditions attached to it. Otherwise it is not FREE.
Free will is not the same as free choice and neither truly exist.
"Free will -- according to ...." is not free will.
That is no more than non-free limited choice.
For all your "metaphysical and esoteric philosophical " high mindedness, you could at least be honest. You've not even thought through what free will would really be , have you ?
In that case there would be no point in living as your God directs existence within the limitations of nature - "red in tooth and claw".
No it does not. Free will means humans would be able to do good things as well as bad things without anotherâs will being impinged . Being subject to anotherâs will against your own, means your own will is not free. The way things are there is not free will.
It's a very unimaginative cruel minded God which allows one person's free will to devastate another personâs will. Any omnipotent God which allows choice without allowing the freedom not be affected by it, is a God which has a malign and evil direction on all existence.
I know it is obvious, but for those who don't know how it works...
stu has no free will in what he posts, he has no choice but to post the slobber below.
He is forced against his will and choice to write what he writes, to believe what he believes and to do what he does.
Pity the man because he feels very much a prisoner in life, fated to all that he does and is done to him by the laws of a condition that is without freedom of will, fettered bound and gagged by the non will and forced actions...
stu has no free will in what he posts, he has no choice but to post the slobber below.
He is forced against his will and choice to write what he writes, to believe what he believes and to do what he does.
Pity the man because he feels very much a prisoner in life, fated to all that he does and is done to him by the laws of a condition that is without freedom of will, fettered bound and gagged by the non will and forced actions...
"It's a very unimaginative cruel minded God..."
I supposed I might entertain the same thoughts as stu if I were not free to think otherwise...
The life of stu is the life of someone who feels constantly victimized by life and the non choices and non will he thinks is his position.
It is a delusion of his own mind, a product of his own mind and own will, but if he put himself in such a cage of his own creation and still has the key to get out, it reduces the compassion and pity for someone who plays the victim by their own decision...self pity does have its benefits in perpetuating the cycle and refusing to change. Not only that, stu never has to mature and can blame God until his dying day...rather than take any personal responsibility to exercise his own will. Like some fat man who dies of heart failure from clogged arteries because he refused to change his diet (mind) and refused to exercise his body (will).
Imagine a life condemned to hating God against the natural inner will and instinct to love God...
Not for me mind you, but apparently stu believes he has no choice in the matter to liberate himself or his mind from the pathetic condition he has put himself in...
How about one big collective "Poor stu, so sad for you..."
I supposed I might entertain the same thoughts as stu if I were not free to think otherwise...
The life of stu is the life of someone who feels constantly victimized by life and the non choices and non will he thinks is his position.
It is a delusion of his own mind, a product of his own mind and own will, but if he put himself in such a cage of his own creation and still has the key to get out, it reduces the compassion and pity for someone who plays the victim by their own decision...self pity does have its benefits in perpetuating the cycle and refusing to change. Not only that, stu never has to mature and can blame God until his dying day...rather than take any personal responsibility to exercise his own will. Like some fat man who dies of heart failure from clogged arteries because he refused to change his diet (mind) and refused to exercise his body (will).
Imagine a life condemned to hating God against the natural inner will and instinct to love God...
Not for me mind you, but apparently stu believes he has no choice in the matter to liberate himself or his mind from the pathetic condition he has put himself in...
How about one big collective "Poor stu, so sad for you..."