actually thats before monday. you can add on at least another 5 to ten percent to most of them
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Which Hedgefunds are going out of business? SAC, citadel, TCI,and etc?
- Thread starter mahram
- Start date
Quote from RussellDaytrade:
Recently, their fund for 'in-house' money was up huge, while their outside money fund was flat...made me think that the real 'genius' was akin to 'allocation magic', voile!, all the winners go here, and everything else goes there. Gee, aren't we smart?!
Yeah, it takes the top-of-yer-class to achieve that trick.
Keeping funds under management under that scenario, now that is genius! Either that, or PT Barnum strikes again.
I constantly come across Renaissance holding stocks that I look at but don't buy in most cases. Seems they just buy 52 week low/low P/B with no other considerations - your explanation as to how they can then produce such staggering results makes sense - the ones that take off will go up 200%-1000% plus and the ones that don't will mostly stay around the same level- so one mega portfolio and one flat portfolio.
you mean in there institutional fund? not medallion ?
yikes ! Very uninformed person posting mahram. SAC benefits tremendously from volatility in the stock market. citadel? do you even know what they do? they have edge, as well as a private equity area, as well as the hedge fund. I think your post is just to show you know big hedge fund names, not what they do. If you are concerned, you should focus on funds locked into trades in the credit markets. All of these will have massive drawdowns. You will never know however, unless one of them goes belly up (due to no reporting rules).
If you recall, LTCM (long term capital mgmt for the newbies) didn't tell you they were in trouble until the last hour. The stock market in this whole debacle is truly a SIDESHOW. Anyone who doesn't understand that is laughable. The credit markets are the backbone of the US credit democracy. Why do you think they pay bond traders double or triple what equity traders make? Because it's more complicated, requires more intelligence, and involves significantly more money.
I realize the elite trader forum is basically a daytrader forum, so i'm just trying to inject some reality. The volatility is fantastic. The up moves of financials are incredibly overstated due to short sale restrictions, and those who prefer shorting have migrated to techs, thus imflaming any bear sell off.
There is more to this game than what you pay per share, or what your payout is. Don't swing around names like Citadel and SAC unless you know what you are talking about.
If you recall, LTCM (long term capital mgmt for the newbies) didn't tell you they were in trouble until the last hour. The stock market in this whole debacle is truly a SIDESHOW. Anyone who doesn't understand that is laughable. The credit markets are the backbone of the US credit democracy. Why do you think they pay bond traders double or triple what equity traders make? Because it's more complicated, requires more intelligence, and involves significantly more money.
I realize the elite trader forum is basically a daytrader forum, so i'm just trying to inject some reality. The volatility is fantastic. The up moves of financials are incredibly overstated due to short sale restrictions, and those who prefer shorting have migrated to techs, thus imflaming any bear sell off.
There is more to this game than what you pay per share, or what your payout is. Don't swing around names like Citadel and SAC unless you know what you are talking about.
yikes ! Very uninformed person posting mahram. SAC benefits tremendously from volatility in the stock market. citadel? do you even know what they do? they have edge, as well as a private equity area, as well as the hedge fund. I think your post is just to show you know big hedge fund names, not what they do. If you are concerned, you should focus on funds locked into trades in the credit markets. All of these will have massive drawdowns. You will never know however, unless one of them goes belly up (due to no reporting rules).
If you recall, LTCM (long term capital mgmt for the newbies) didn't tell you they were in trouble until the last hour. The stock market in this whole debacle is truly a SIDESHOW. Anyone who doesn't understand that is laughable. The credit markets are the backbone of the US credit democracy. Why do you think they pay bond traders double or triple what equity traders make? Because it's more complicated, requires more intelligence, and involves significantly more money.
I realize the elite trader forum is basically a daytrader forum, so i'm just trying to inject some reality. The volatility is fantastic. The up moves of financials are incredibly overstated due to short sale restrictions, and those who prefer shorting have migrated to techs, thus imflaming any bear sell off.
There is more to this game than what you pay per share, or what your payout is. Don't swing around names like Citadel and SAC unless you know what you are talking about.
If you recall, LTCM (long term capital mgmt for the newbies) didn't tell you they were in trouble until the last hour. The stock market in this whole debacle is truly a SIDESHOW. Anyone who doesn't understand that is laughable. The credit markets are the backbone of the US credit democracy. Why do you think they pay bond traders double or triple what equity traders make? Because it's more complicated, requires more intelligence, and involves significantly more money.
I realize the elite trader forum is basically a daytrader forum, so i'm just trying to inject some reality. The volatility is fantastic. The up moves of financials are incredibly overstated due to short sale restrictions, and those who prefer shorting have migrated to techs, thus imflaming any bear sell off.
There is more to this game than what you pay per share, or what your payout is. Don't swing around names like Citadel and SAC unless you know what you are talking about.
I think its safe to say that some very big players are probably in trouble. let just call it intuition.
Quote from mahram:
Since the short selling ban has been enacted around the world, the basis for many hedgefund strategies have been destroyed. And then you put up commodity crash, alot of hedgefunds are down huge this year. Even pickens lost a billion dollers. ESL lamperts fund is down huge, sac is is down huge. so which is the first one to go, and what would be the ramifications. Another bailout this time, but for hedgies?
Over the last several years the explosive growth in hedge funds has been similar to the growth in the number of daytraders in the late 90's, a lot of people made some good money and thought themselves very special because of it. Things changed and they learned that they are not so special, the same thing is likely to happen with a lot of the new hedge funds.
Hmm. Attain Capital mails me monthly, like clockwork.
This month:
"What investments are doing well in current market crisis?"
Asset Class -- YTD Performance
Managed Futures +5.80%
Cash +0.85%
Bonds -1.15%
Commodities -4.01%
Hedge Funds -5.05%
Real Estate -19.73%
US Stocks -26.24%
World Stocks -29.50%
Somehow, they think the fact that I could make 5.8% in 9 months in Managed Futures is supposed to be impressive. Or that this will continue into the future now that futures are going down? I doubt this includes costs and incentive fees!!!
Key: All results estimates as of 9/29/08 - Managed Futures = Credit Suisse/Tremont Managed Futures Index, Cash = 3 mo T-Bill rate, Bonds = Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF, Hedge Funds = Credit Suisse/Tremont Hedge Index, Commodities â Reuters/CRB Commodity Index, Real Estate = Dow Jones Wilshire Real Estate Securities Index, World Stocks = MCSI World Index, US Stocks = S&P 500 Index
try moving ten billion around in this environment.