which Bitcoin ETF does not hold real BTC?

[johnarb]

I've considered something like this for crypto keys but there's no real good solution.
Either one or two people have a roadmap to steal your money, or you create an insanely complicated shame with many parties and fractional keys.

The last thing I want is for my grieving family to have to reenact the plot from Largo Wench
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0808339/plotsummary/?ref_=tt_stry_pl

I don't use Casa but it's got good reviews, Peter McCormack (YouTube "What Bitcoin Did") swears by it

Unfortunately, Security and Convenience are opposite, give up some security for convenience and vice versa

I have a thread here on ET (on setting up a secure computer) and my setup is even more complex, I have ocd

At least once a month, I have the wife perform the complex rituals of opening and using the private keys and she does most of the crypto transactions, defi and cefi

When my kids are old enough, they'll learn as well

The most complex are the backups and recoveries , that would be too much, my instructions, if i go brain dead, or go into a coma or just plain dead, move a certain number of bitcoins to US-based cexes, accounts are already setup with 2fa

The amount not moved will have no backups, but still acceptable, risk balanced with sovereign reward

I can probably setup a VPS with a cron job, dead man's switch, in combination with a google email scheduler if trust was an issue, but if I'm dead I'm dead, not really up to me, most important are the kids, everything belongs to them

 

[engineering]

I can probably setup a VPS with a cron job, dead man's switch, in combination with a google email scheduler if

I've thought about that and it seems like good idea but there are so many scenarios to cover.
It's too bad you can't simply hand an envelope to an attorney or safe deposit box, but the US is becoming a post rule of law society.

 

[engineering]

When you buy Bitcoin, does the exchange know your key? Or does anyone in the etf fund knows the key? How can you trust the key will not fall into bad man’s hands

Most crypto today is based on public/private key pairs.
Applied Cryptography is a good book to read regularly how cryptography works.

 

[NoahA]

I don't use Casa but it's got good reviews, Peter McCormack (YouTube "What Bitcoin Did") swears by it

Peter also recommend BlockFi I think it was... LOL.... But I love Peter, and watch every show.

Casa is the part creation of Jameson Loop, and the guy is fucking brilliant. I read everything he writes, and have no doubt he has his security practises down pat.

I think River is also very good and comes highly regarded.

The other big name is Swan, but honestly, this one is a wild card. They went through a couple of custodians that literally went belly up and lost the keys to the coins. And Matt Odell made a serious allegation against them that sounds very legit. Swan claims to be giving away so much money to support the community, but Matt what asking where it is. With this amount of money, you would assume to have heard of people who got it. So I'm not sure about Cory and the Swan team. And from watching videos, I also don't like their head of high networth individuals, or whatever his title is, Steven Lubka, or something like this. He seems scammy to me.

 

[trend2009]

another option is to diversify among a basket of etf funds. Which one do you recommend?

 

[Martstorm]

I am thinking of buying bitcoin, but I do not want to hold BTC in wallet, so I would like to buy bitcoin ETF. But If the ETF holds real BTC, what would happen if someone hacks the bitcoin held by the ETF, does it mean every investor of that ETF would lose everything?

So I prefer an ETF that does not hold any real bitcoin or bitcoin future since future has degradation. The ETF's NAV is purely determined by the bitcoin spot price. Is there such ETF?

I am thinking of buying bitcoin, but I do not want to hold BTC in wallet, so I would like to buy bitcoin ETF. But if the ETF holds real BTC, what would happen if someone hacks the bitcoin held by the ETF, does it mean every investor of that ETF would lose everything?

That is a valid concern, but I think it is unlikely that a reputable ETF provider would let that happen. They would have to follow strict security measures and regulations to protect their assets and investors. Plus, they would probably have insurance to cover any losses in case of a breach.

So I prefer an ETF that does not hold any real bitcoin or bitcoin future since future has degradation. The ETF's NAV is purely determined by the bitcoin spot price. Is there such ETF?

As far as I know, there is no such ETF in the US market right now. All the approved bitcoin ETFs either hold bitcoin futures or physical bitcoins. The closest thing to what you are looking for is a synthetic bitcoin ETF, which uses derivatives to track the bitcoin price without holding any bitcoins. However, these are only available in some countries like Canada and Europe, and they may have higher fees and risks than other types of bitcoin ETFs.

 

[trend2009]

I am thinking of buying bitcoin, but I do not want to hold BTC in wallet, so I would like to buy bitcoin ETF. But if the ETF holds real BTC, what would happen if someone hacks the bitcoin held by the ETF, does it mean every investor of that ETF would lose everything?

That is a valid concern, but I think it is unlikely that a reputable ETF provider would let that happen. They would have to follow strict security measures and regulations to protect their assets and investors. Plus, they would probably have insurance to cover any losses in case of a breach.

So I prefer an ETF that does not hold any real bitcoin or bitcoin future since future has degradation. The ETF's NAV is purely determined by the bitcoin spot price. Is there such ETF?

As far as I know, there is no such ETF in the US market right now. All the approved bitcoin ETFs either hold bitcoin futures or physical bitcoins. The closest thing to what you are looking for is a synthetic bitcoin ETF, which uses derivatives to track the bitcoin price without holding any bitcoins. However, these are only available in some countries like Canada and Europe, and they may have higher fees and risks than other types of bitcoin ETFs.

Thanks a lot. You are an expert in Bitcoin. It looks like I have to buy bitcoin ETF if I do not want to hold the bitcoin wallet. So in your opinion which Bitcoin ETF is best that has lower expense, and the fund is big and reputable? I think the ETF that uses futures or derivatives are not the choice because of inherently cost associated with those operations.

 

[trend2009]

agree with you that holding BTC in a wallet is risky and inconvenient. I also don’t like the idea of investing in an ETF that holds real BTC, because you never know when hackers might strike and wipe out your investment. That’s why I think a synthetic bitcoin ETF is the best option for me. It tracks the bitcoin price without holding any bitcoins or futures, so it’s more efficient and secure. I know there are some drawbacks, like higher fees and regulatory uncertainty, but I’m willing to take those risks for the sake of simplicity and convenience. I hope the US will approve a synthetic bitcoin ETF soon, because I think it’s the future of bitcoin investing.

which ETF do you recommend?

 

[Martstorm]

I agree with you 100%. Holding BTC in a wallet is a hassle and a liability. Investing in an ETF that holds real BTC is too risky for me. A synthetic bitcoin ETF is the perfect solution. It gives me exposure to the bitcoin price without the headaches of owning or storing bitcoins. I don't mind paying a bit more in fees or dealing with some regulatory uncertainty. I just want a simple and secure way to invest in bitcoin. A synthetic bitcoin ETF is the way to go. I hope the US regulators will see the light and approve one soon.

 

[semperfrosty]

which ETF do you recommend?

Looks like youre getting double teamed by a couple of bots there Trend! haha