Where's The Professional ET Forex Traders?
- Thread starter secxces
- Start date
Hello dudes and dudettes.
First, I consider myself a professional trader, now does that mean that I sit in front of a computer all day long trading, no. I have a salary that has a base + a monthly commission on new high water marks for our managed accounts. The reason for this is that not only do I trade but I also take care of clients questions, opening new accounts, arranging for withdrawals, helping our CIO, developing new strategies etc. So it is not just a matter of trading but other stuff that goes along with it.
Second, at times I need a break, so I hang out here to just get away for a few mins.
Third, the definition of a professional trader is not so cut and dried. I consider myself a pro because my entire salary is derived from trading or trading activities, however I also consider Electric Savant a pro because of his past experience in trading, the professional way he handles himself, his ability to trade, and the fact that he is constantly coming up with new trading ideas. I don't think a pro has anything to do with account size, p&l, margin who you work for etc.
Fourth, if I understand the first post correctly, and please think seriously about this, just because "Pro's" do not share their systems and strategies on these boards does not mean there are no pros here. The professional traders first responsibility is to the client, and then the organization he works for or with. This means that sharing a strategy in private or public, that was developed while receiving payment to work on said strategy would be, in my opinion a serious breach of ethics. That is why I cannot and will not share the exact current strategies we/I use. It is not that I think we are better than anyone else, it is just a matter of loyalty. This is why my comments to ES and others regarding strategies are usually kind of vague.
Fifth, posting p&l's is in my observation just plain egotistical and I for one will not be involved in it. Also, with all of the photoshop and editing programs out there a posted p&l without an independent confirmation of said p&L is, again in my opinion, worthless.
So continue to learn and trade well everybody
The Ever Trying To Be As Professional As I Can VIPER
First, I consider myself a professional trader, now does that mean that I sit in front of a computer all day long trading, no. I have a salary that has a base + a monthly commission on new high water marks for our managed accounts. The reason for this is that not only do I trade but I also take care of clients questions, opening new accounts, arranging for withdrawals, helping our CIO, developing new strategies etc. So it is not just a matter of trading but other stuff that goes along with it.
Second, at times I need a break, so I hang out here to just get away for a few mins.
Third, the definition of a professional trader is not so cut and dried. I consider myself a pro because my entire salary is derived from trading or trading activities, however I also consider Electric Savant a pro because of his past experience in trading, the professional way he handles himself, his ability to trade, and the fact that he is constantly coming up with new trading ideas. I don't think a pro has anything to do with account size, p&l, margin who you work for etc.
Fourth, if I understand the first post correctly, and please think seriously about this, just because "Pro's" do not share their systems and strategies on these boards does not mean there are no pros here. The professional traders first responsibility is to the client, and then the organization he works for or with. This means that sharing a strategy in private or public, that was developed while receiving payment to work on said strategy would be, in my opinion a serious breach of ethics. That is why I cannot and will not share the exact current strategies we/I use. It is not that I think we are better than anyone else, it is just a matter of loyalty. This is why my comments to ES and others regarding strategies are usually kind of vague.
Fifth, posting p&l's is in my observation just plain egotistical and I for one will not be involved in it. Also, with all of the photoshop and editing programs out there a posted p&l without an independent confirmation of said p&L is, again in my opinion, worthless.
So continue to learn and trade well everybody
The Ever Trying To Be As Professional As I Can VIPER
Thats interesting, I have met a few others in a similar position. Usually there not considered "Day Traders" though. Mostly medium to long term swing and position trades. I assume thats the way it is at your firm. I have dabbled with this idea a few times, with my education and background, I always thought it would be less stressful.
Agreed. Everyone needs a break.
This is exactly what I was trying to explain earlier. I basically summarized this in a previous post. Well said, I agree 100%.
Im sorry, I was misunderstood. I was actually just trying to bring some forex traders out of the wood work. In the past, I have found, there is alot of downtime in my trading. Talking with others in chat rooms, sharing some basic ideas, chit chat, etc, always passes time and makes things enjoyable. I guess thats really the small things you miss about a office job. I was just trying to spark some interests from actually fx traders, not these beginners that are interested. At which point, throw some ideas around, more or less via the ET chat or something. Never did I want a strategy, someone mentioned how they traded S&R and I have heard this many times. A tried and true strategy, but I have heard it done many different ways. I was just curious at the time. Other then that, simple yay and nay's would have been fine for answers to the original post.
It also depends on your situation. You, from what I have read, you seem to manage the positions , etc. Day trading versus this, well it would be elogical for you, IMO. Second, im not sure its egotistical. Maybe in a way. But, trading, IMO, is a not easy, therefore competitive. If im making $500 a day and lescor is making $5000 a day, I may not be to prone to taking a nap after my trading day, I may sit on the computer and run through new strategies, develop new ideas, and not stop till I can beat him. This is how I view things, however, I know this is not the norm. Second to that, is bragging. Egotistical, as defined by dictionary.com, is 1. characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance , 2. characteristic of false pride. In anyway, I would think if I see someone post a $20,000 day, and they make a laughing remark afterwards, thats not egotistical. Theres no false pride in success, on in the person who snears at the others success (and Im not meaning you viper, so dont take that the wrong way). But IMO, I think blotters are enjoyable to check out, and I give great respect to those who do. I do not, due to the fact that my trading is sometimes, very here and there aswell as my equity curve isnt what you would call, smooth..lol, But it does provide enough income to allow me to do it fulltime. I am working on this, and you can bet as soon as im comfortable, I will be very egotistical myself..wink wink.
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Thank you viper for you contribution. I enjoy hearing from some of the senior members here. IMO I would consider you a senior anyway. Nonetheless, thanks again.
The thread really didnt accomplish what I intended, maybe I worded it wrong. But, It has brought alot of negative feedback. I do not wish to be the creator of that. So I will not try and to keep this alive anymore. My hopes is that it falls deep into the ocean on old posts.
- secXces
Lon whats up, this is not a definition but I was giving my personal view as to why there are not at lot of pro's giving out stratagies and systems. Money tech, forex factory, and others are replete with systems and stratagies for forex but here there are much fewer.
Also there was a misunderstanding with sec, I thought he was wondering why there wern't more pros sharing strats, when that is not what he meant. But that having been said, I still stand by my statement, traders who trade clients money, unless they are just entering trades for a money manager at the managers pre defined levels, have a responsiblility to the client first and foremost.
SEC, I think you asked an honest question. As far as this thread is concerned, I like it, and the negativity is just a part of dealing with the anonymous public, I have found two ways of dealing with this, the ignore feature, or my "small caliber, smoothbore, flintlocks or as they were once called "gentlemans weapons" but few with these attitudes are willing to to stand eye to eye at 100 paces, oh thats right its illegal, well then the ignore feature. (just kidding
)
I have trades in the long term, daytrades, and mid term horizons. The challange with FX is to find out if it is trending or trading. Sometimes a daytrader is successful in FX trading for a while and then they blow up, why? Because the market shifts more frequently than equities. By the way the easiest thing to trade are the QQQQs.
So you need to use
1 some kind of level trading system that you countertrend on, and also trade minor reverses for daytrades.
2. A pure longer term counter trend system,
3. a long and short term trend following system,
4 a corrolation system that explains where the money goes when the volume dries up on the FX, this helps detect when you are in an FX mood swing (trending to trading market)
5 a time frame that gives clarity to the market you are trading, days, hours, mins, secs, tics, whichever allows you to visualize the current mood in the market or pair.
6 your own brain looking at the size on the ticker, for example before a news release why would there be large size on the bid and small sizes on the ask, then a 30 pip gap down, then continued buying on the way down after the gap? Because it is going to run the other way.
I am going to sleep now, but ES is still up, if you have insomnia, go on over to the golden arches thread for some fine reading and trading, out.
The Ever Very Odd VIPER
Also there was a misunderstanding with sec, I thought he was wondering why there wern't more pros sharing strats, when that is not what he meant. But that having been said, I still stand by my statement, traders who trade clients money, unless they are just entering trades for a money manager at the managers pre defined levels, have a responsiblility to the client first and foremost.
SEC, I think you asked an honest question. As far as this thread is concerned, I like it, and the negativity is just a part of dealing with the anonymous public, I have found two ways of dealing with this, the ignore feature, or my "small caliber, smoothbore, flintlocks or as they were once called "gentlemans weapons" but few with these attitudes are willing to to stand eye to eye at 100 paces, oh thats right its illegal, well then the ignore feature. (just kidding
)I have trades in the long term, daytrades, and mid term horizons. The challange with FX is to find out if it is trending or trading. Sometimes a daytrader is successful in FX trading for a while and then they blow up, why? Because the market shifts more frequently than equities. By the way the easiest thing to trade are the QQQQs.
So you need to use
1 some kind of level trading system that you countertrend on, and also trade minor reverses for daytrades.
2. A pure longer term counter trend system,
3. a long and short term trend following system,
4 a corrolation system that explains where the money goes when the volume dries up on the FX, this helps detect when you are in an FX mood swing (trending to trading market)
5 a time frame that gives clarity to the market you are trading, days, hours, mins, secs, tics, whichever allows you to visualize the current mood in the market or pair.
6 your own brain looking at the size on the ticker, for example before a news release why would there be large size on the bid and small sizes on the ask, then a 30 pip gap down, then continued buying on the way down after the gap? Because it is going to run the other way.
I am going to sleep now, but ES is still up, if you have insomnia, go on over to the golden arches thread for some fine reading and trading, out.
The Ever Very Odd VIPER
Quote from TradeViper:
Lon whats up, this is not a definition but I was giving my personal view as to why there are not at lot of pro's giving out strategies and systems. Money tech, forex factory, and others are replete with systems and strategies for forex but here there are much fewer.
Also there was a misunderstanding with sec, I thought he was wondering why there weren't more pros sharing strats, when that is not what he meant. But that having been said, I still stand by my statement, traders who trade clients money, unless they are just entering trades for a money manager at the managers pre defined levels, have a responsibility to the client first and foremost.
SEC, I think you asked an honest question. As far as this thread is concerned, I like it, and the negativity is just a part of dealing with the anonymous public, I have found two ways of dealing with this, the ignore feature, or my "small caliber, smoothbore, flintlocks or as they were once called "gentleman weapons" but few with these attitudes are willing to to stand eye to eye at 100 paces, oh thats right its illegal, well then the ignore feature. (just kidding
I have trades in the long term, daytrades, and mid term horizons. The challenge with FX is to find out if it is trending or trading. Sometimes a daytrader is successful in FX trading for a while and then they blow up, why? Because the market shifts more frequently than equities. By the way the easiest thing to trade are the QQQQs.
So you need to use
1. some kind of level trading system that you countertrend on, and also trade minor reverses for daytrades.
2. A pure longer term counter trend system,
3. a long and short term trend following system,
4 a correlation system that explains where the money goes when the volume dries up on the FX, this helps detect when you are in an FX mood swing (trending to trading market)
5 a time frame that gives clarity to the market you are trading, days, hours, mins, secs, tics, whichever allows you to visualize the current mood in the market or pair.
6 your own brain looking at the size on the ticker, for example before a news release why would there be large size on the bid and small sizes on the ask, then a 30 pip gap down, then continued buying on the way down after the gap? Because it is going to run the other way.
I am going to sleep now, but ES is still up, if you have insomnia, go on over to the golden arches thread for some fine reading and trading, out.
The Ever Very Odd VIPER
Viper,
Very very well said post. I have been trying to incorporate multiple strategies into my trading, allowing me to diversify better. I will seriously take that post to heart. I hate to ask you, but can you elaborate further. I understand points #2, #3, and #6, but could you go into depth a little more on the other points, Im not sure im understanding. Its funny how some of the best info comes from those you never expect.lol.
Personally I have always been a short term fast trend follower. Simply, determing the macro-trend on a medium time frame, and then looking for that same trend direction speeding up or slowing down on a smaller timeframe, while looking at the micro-trend. Similarly to riding a bull, on and off really quick, with high volume and trend increasing in velocity. I have always found this to be a least drawdown type method, not to mention im always able to scale into trades better this way.
But as i said, interesting to see what your saying. I kinda have all my eggs in one basket. On low volume days, im getting beat up, ranging days arent that bad but still dont trake home much on those days. Thanks again,
Hope to hear from you in the future.
"Doctor, lets jump start the heart of this thread back to life." lol
- secXces
I was only messing around, don't become 'the all too serious viper'!
My semi serious point though was that you dont have to be an employee or have clients to be a 'pro'.
I like the fact that on ET it is not full of egotistical twats making out they are making millions every year. Some will be earning great money, others may trade a demo account. Who cares just read everything at face value and decide for yourself if it provides an insight. Afterall no one would ever reveal their edge anyway.
Lon no prob Bob, and I agree not every Pro is an "employee". And really if you think about it, if someone has the "nut" and ability to trade on thier own, the freedom it allows is magnificent, the only better way to make money than this is to inherit it
Also I appreciate you comment regarding people bragging about how much money thhey make a year etc. When I see this from a poster they go on ignore, and then I put new flints in the pistols
Sec, I will get back to you during this week.
The Ever Attentive VIPER
Also I appreciate you comment regarding people bragging about how much money thhey make a year etc. When I see this from a poster they go on ignore, and then I put new flints in the pistols
Sec, I will get back to you during this week.
The Ever Attentive VIPER