Where to Learn to Trade?
- Thread starter greenery
- Start date
LOL, lurker here had to pop in to respond to this.
Millions come easier to someone who knows how to trade than pennies to someone who doesn't. Knowing how to trade and having a solid edge is better than having an ephemeral edge that may not work across market conditions. I wouldn't share the former unless it was with a relative or on my deathbed.
HTH.
Millions come easier to someone who knows how to trade than pennies to someone who doesn't. Knowing how to trade and having a solid edge is better than having an ephemeral edge that may not work across market conditions. I wouldn't share the former unless it was with a relative or on my deathbed.
HTH.
This is not a stupid question. Apply to a JOB at a firm which backs you and shares in your profits. Maybe they pay salary, maybe they don't, but there is NO CAPITAL DOWN ON YOUR PART, NOT EVEN $1 or more as a processing fee. If you need to write a check, it is not a job. Also, anyone who sells education is selling you something not worth a dime. Anyone who blabs about how good they are on a blog or website is trying to sell you something that probably isn't worth anything, because it if it was, they would be busy trading, and as you said, certainly wouldn't be blabbing about it.
The firms who back and share in profits have economic interests in teaching you.
If you apply and cannot get a JOB with one of those firms, try a different career. Your chances of success to almost nil.
Sorry if that is the case. Save your money and time (which is worth as much as your money) and find another business.
The firms who back and share in profits have economic interests in teaching you.
If you apply and cannot get a JOB with one of those firms, try a different career. Your chances of success to almost nil.
Sorry if that is the case. Save your money and time (which is worth as much as your money) and find another business.
Your question is reasonable indeed and so are you got on the forum.
The bottom line is that to find the "right" answer is up to you.
If I might share a little something with you forget day trading because it's a pipedream.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194342&highlight=pipedream
The bottom line is that to find the "right" answer is up to you.
If I might share a little something with you forget day trading because it's a pipedream.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194342&highlight=pipedream
greenery
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
08-27-11 12:58 AM
It seems everyone who is willing to teach can't trade and makes a living selling educational materials. And those who can trade are paranoid (perhaps rightfully) about sharing their method. How can I find someone who can teach me for a reasonable cost? I don't think this is a stupid question.
Bright Trading is set up for newbie traders ( you must pass series 7 first), they have what's called a "boot camp" plus several successful Bright Traders that offer additional more structured training for a fee eg Rob Friesen.
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
08-27-11 12:58 AM
It seems everyone who is willing to teach can't trade and makes a living selling educational materials. And those who can trade are paranoid (perhaps rightfully) about sharing their method. How can I find someone who can teach me for a reasonable cost? I don't think this is a stupid question.
Bright Trading is set up for newbie traders ( you must pass series 7 first), they have what's called a "boot camp" plus several successful Bright Traders that offer additional more structured training for a fee eg Rob Friesen.
Your question is reasonable, and your response to your own question is correct. In order to learn how to trade, you have to experience the entire spectrum of emotions the market can engender in you. For example:
You need to understand what it looks like to try something that seems to make sense 10 times and have it fail 8 out of those 10.
When you get an idea of what was wrong about that setup (probably derived from books or what not), you need to tweak the two that worked to discover new setups.
After that, you must try a new approach, understand what it feels like to miss a great entry, then chase it, then doubt yourself on the first pull back and force yourself out, only to watch it then go powerfully in the direction you expected.
You have to experience the pain of betting way too much on a situation you were confident in, then stop yourself out on the slightest counter-move b/c it's too painful, then watch it unfold perfectly.
You must watch yourself experience the above several times, then sit out then next great entries because you can't take the pain anymore and once again watch it unfold perfectly.
You THEN must start to recognize what all that looks like in the data, and then try to front run those behaviors in a systematic way.
THEN you must get tripped up by becoming too confident in what you first built up out of amassed information and intuition.
Etc. There's a lot more to it, but this is the typical path, and there's nothing wrong with it. This is not a fair game; most have to lose in order for a few to garner outsized gains, so you have to learn to see the market through the lens of every emotion it creates. There are a few people on ET who have shared their knowledge for free that will help you put some puzzle pieces together, but (at least in my experience) no matter how good they are, those pieces will never fit together unless you make them your own. It's a deeply personal journey.
It may not be stupid. But, it is not well defined. There are a plethora of potentially profitable trading strategies and methods.
You can't blame the teacher for failing to deliver if you can't even define what you require. And, yes there are some out there who are willing to offer mentoring/training including myself.
But, before you contact anyone about training then you need to define
What is reasonable cost and why is that reasonable? Reasonable is probably around $40 to $200 per hour for instruction if compared to other professionals. This would be a good start basis range.
What is a reasonable net return and risk/adjusted return that a method/style should have for you to consider it? My research indicated that traders who can do 30% or better at a 1:1 risk/reward are among the best of those who have long term or audited records.
What instruments do you want to trade and how active do you want to be? There are many ways to trade and many instruments.
Yes, if go to your traditional hokum vendor then they can't answer the questions. But, the fact you don't even know to ask them is telling, as well.
Likewise, it is reasonable to ask what traders are likely to help you who aren't just motivated by the sound of their own slick and smooth talking voice?
You find these traders at basically 2 stages. The traders who aren't yet established and need capital (me). You, also, find those who have already achieved considerable success and want to leave a legacy or create something more. I will agree that there are fewer traders at the achieved stage (then other fields) and that's because there are just very few who are successful long term.
You can't blame the teacher for failing to deliver if you can't even define what you require. And, yes there are some out there who are willing to offer mentoring/training including myself.
But, before you contact anyone about training then you need to define
What is reasonable cost and why is that reasonable? Reasonable is probably around $40 to $200 per hour for instruction if compared to other professionals. This would be a good start basis range.
What is a reasonable net return and risk/adjusted return that a method/style should have for you to consider it? My research indicated that traders who can do 30% or better at a 1:1 risk/reward are among the best of those who have long term or audited records.
What instruments do you want to trade and how active do you want to be? There are many ways to trade and many instruments.
Yes, if go to your traditional hokum vendor then they can't answer the questions. But, the fact you don't even know to ask them is telling, as well.
Likewise, it is reasonable to ask what traders are likely to help you who aren't just motivated by the sound of their own slick and smooth talking voice?
You find these traders at basically 2 stages. The traders who aren't yet established and need capital (me). You, also, find those who have already achieved considerable success and want to leave a legacy or create something more. I will agree that there are fewer traders at the achieved stage (then other fields) and that's because there are just very few who are successful long term.
It is unreasonable, but not a stupid question. For several years I use to teach for a fee, it was in six figures and even that was cheap, I provided monthly or daily brokerage statements for five years, their fee only came from profits, and when the time came, they would sit next to me for one month and trade my account. A dozen are still trading well today.
People might say it was too much to charge, but they don't realize that when they have a question during the day session and I miss a trade at the time, it is not like I lost out on a couple bucks in opportunity. And the methods I taught at the time were the methods I traded at the time. The last few folks I have taught or ongoing, not charged a dime. They understand I am ill and can only give them so much time, but one of them making a grand a week, though he is only half way though. And I don't have time for more students, I am lucky to keep living.
There are no true "Holy Grail" methods of 100% in which you have 5-10 trades a day, but can get darn close, depending on the instrument. I am not paranoid about sharing my methods, but certainly not going to share them with the masses cause then they will stop working in future's markets. To teach folks how to trade is a two year deal and it intense of me saying the same thing 1000 times till they understand a concept. And someone was correct, it takes time to become a good teacher and have great patience.
There is a huge difference between learning how to trade and learning a method, people who learn methods, generally fail at some point, methods have to be readjusted at times and since you do not have knowledge of markets, you can't tweak it, whereas if you learn how to trade-no problem in making methods better.
Anyone who trades well would be insulted to make a lousy $40-200 bucks an hour, one of the reasons I stopped charging. Trading can be an incredible lonesome endeavor, teaching another reinforces one's rules, plus get a good feeling of helping out a guy/gal with a family.