Where the HELL is that fat bastard Cheney??

Quote from bungrider:





hehe...well, honestly, I'm glad you're that wealthy, but let me make some points that you may not be aware of.

First, people who make more money consume more resources, whether it is government resources, environmental resources, etc. -- but that is simply the reality. I'll give a couple of examples to make sure we're talking about the same thing --

With out a doubt one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard in my life....what I really love though, is the fact you mention the pollution of MEXICO CITY as an example....a car is a car, regardless of what you think....How wealthy is MEXICO CITY???? Yet they have really bad pollution....

Low income groups tend to have HIGHER health costs because THEY DO NOT PAY FOR INSURANCE...MY TAX $$$ does...the big problem they face now is the # of lower income people who go to the emergency room for the flu or a cold or a sprained ankle...

also...Cigarette and drug and alcohol related disease and death is so high ....who is consuming more? There's 300 million americans...10 % are "wealthy"....you honestly believe 30 million consume more then 270 million??? Do youreally believe this stuff? Have you ever done some research on it or are you just creating in your head??? Scary man....Don't go MONDO on me here....Wealthy people tend to 1) Pay for their own housing 2) Pya for their own insurance 3) Have hazard insurance on their homes so there's no need for fed. help 4) fund their own retirement 5) fund their children's college ( no need for student loans)...I want you to say it again or clarify it....you said : the wealthy consume more in this country right???
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Quote from TM_Direct:

Quote from bungrider:

With out a doubt one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard in my life....what I really love though, is the fact you mention the pollution of MEXICO CITY as an example....a car is a car, regardless of what you think....How wealthy is MEXICO CITY???? Yet they have really bad pollution....

Low income groups tend to have HIGHER health costs because THEY DO NOT PAY FOR INSURANCE...MY TAX $$$ does...the big problem they face now is the # of lower income people who go to the emergency room for the flu or a cold or a sprained ankle...

also...Cigarette and drug and alcohol related disease and death is so high ....who is consuming more? There's 300 million americans...10 % are "wealthy"....you honestly believe 30 million consume more then 270 million??? Do youreally believe this stuff? Have you ever done some research on it or are you just creating in your head??? Scary man....Don't go MONDO on me here....Wealthy people tend to 1) Pay for their own housing 2) Pya for their own insurance 3) Have hazard insurance on their homes so there's no need for fed. help 4) fund their own retirement 5) fund their children's college ( no need for student loans)...I want you to say it again or clarify it....you said : the wealthy consume more in this country right???
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:D LMAO...you guys never learn, do you?? Instead, just like a typical republican, you twist my words around and make another pointless, ill-informed, and EMOTIONAL argument. You've chosen to ignore most of my examples, and instead blame the problems of the world on poor people. Unbelievable. DENIAL. DENIAL. DENIAL. Just like with the Iranians...

MEXICO CITY has NOTHING TO DO WITH MY ARGUMENT. In fact, it has EVERYTHING to do with why your argument is ASSININE -- Mexico City has NO ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS. Wealthy or not. The same terrible environmental policy that the Bush administration would LOVE to adopt for the US so their friends can make a little more money.

LOWER INCOME people have LOWER health costs. Not higher. These people DIE YOUNGER, and SKIP EXPENSIVE GERIATRIC CARE. End of story. Same reason cigarette smokers end up having LOWER health costs over their lives than do non-smokers (look it up, because I didn't believe it when I heard it, either) -- they DIE YOUNGER. And I'm not going to extend this TAX debate to health care -- I was simply making a point about health care that most people don't realize in my last post. Poor people also do not go to expensive physical therapy, do not go to the doctor every time they have a cold, etc.

The whole 270 million vs 30 million is especially amusing. Let me put it to you this way -- the US consumes 75% of the world's resources, yet we are 5% of the world's population. Do some math. Who should be paying what??

Of course, you left out the most important part of your argument, which tells me that your argument is based more on emotion, and less on facts. Poor people tend to get arrested more, and thus they use more court, jail, and other law enforcement resources than do the wealthy. Of course, wealthy people like W will never go to jail for doing cocaine, so maybe that part of the anti-poor argument is more of a gray area than you'd like to think...

I'm not sure what you were implying with the cigarette and alcohol comment -- if you were implying that half the Bush family has been in rehab, and that is simply shameful, well, then I couldn't agree with you more.
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Follow the bouncing ball....

I work , I get a check I pay my 37% into the Government tax coffers and i bring home my $$$

After careful considertaion , I have 5000.00 in previously taxed $$ left over....I take a risk and I buy as much JDSU as possible....If I lose it all, the Gov't gives me no help....but if I turn it into 100,000 profit the government wants 35,000 of my profit....

so im left with 65,000 and the gov't gets 35k ( 2nd time taxed on my original paycheck).....

I take the 65 k and I buy a 50k boat......Goventment wants a lux. tax of 15 % so i have to fork over another chunk ( 3rd time taxed)

I take the other 15k, and i put it into a trading account and parlay it to 100k profit....govenment now gets another payday...:confused: :confused: why?

On top of that i also get taxed :

1) my cell phone ( very high too)
2) my regular phone ( take a closer look)
3) My electrice bill ( take a close look)
4) My car's lease
5) GAs tax
6) Tolls getting to work
8) Water Bill ( it bad enough to pay for h20, but to tax me ontop?
9) My savings account ( get's reported)
10)My cable bill ( I can't watch TV without a tax???)
11)My Mortgage ( I get killed on property tax to pay for schools)
12) Airplane tickets ( look at the ticket charges !!)
13) beer, wine anything else i buy!
14) estate tax ( i can't even die without being taxed!)



The sad thing is i probably left some out!!!

and you think this is good?
 
Quote from TM_Direct:

and you think this is good?
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NO!

But nothing is free in life. Sorry.

What about the Bush consumption tax?? Doesn't that put you in a big circle??

(I gotta run now. This is a great thread -- we'll definitely continue this tomorrow. Have a good night).
 
LOWER INCOME people have LOWER health costs. Not higher. These people DIE YOUNGER, and SKIP EXPENSIVE GERIATRIC CARE. End of story. Same reason cigarette smokers end up having LOWER health costs over their lives than do non-smokers (look it up, because I didn't believe it when I heard it, either) -- they DIE YOUNGER. And I'm not going to extend this TAX debate to health care -- I was simply making a point about health care that most people don't realize in my last post. Poor people also do not go to expensive physical therapy, do not go to the doctor every time they have a cold, etc.

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Your serious aren't you????? Let's seriously take a look at this:

Im wealthy.....I pay 800.00 per mo for me and my family to be part of a health plan..MY EXPENSE

Im poor....The gov't pays for me when i go to the emergency room. or medicus ect.....what do you think costs more to the american people? The wealthy get no health benefits the poor do..what are you saying?


Next

Im wealthy...I make my own retirement and make arrangements to go to boca-del -vist retirement home utilizing the retirement trust i set up over a lifetime...it costs the gov't nothing..


Im poor...I have to be placed in assisted living facility and on medicare at the gov't s expense ...who is costing the gov't more?

next

cigarette smoking is the # 1 issue faced by any person applying for HEALTH and or LIFE insurance.....Do you have any insurance by the way? If you did you wouldn't have made that ridiculous statement..In fact, i don't smoke but i tested positive on my life test because i had some 2nd hand smoke on me...it would have tripled my premium...I took it again and passed....

Now here we go again:

wealthy person goses for insurance and smokes, he pays out of his own pocket the extra cost of his 'sin'

a low income person smokes but it doesn't matter....the government pays fo it!!!!!

so let's go back one last time: you said the wealthy consume more then the lwer incomes that's why they should pay more...
 
Quote from TM_Direct:

Follow the bouncing ball....

1) my cell phone ( very high too)
2) my regular phone ( take a closer look)
3) My electric bill ( take a close look)
4) My car's lease
5) GAs tax
6) Tolls getting to work
8) Water Bill ( it bad enough to pay for h20, but to tax me ontop?
9) My savings account ( get's reported)
10)My cable bill ( I can't watch TV without a tax???)
11)My Mortgage ( I get killed on property tax to pay for schools)
12) Airplane tickets ( look at the ticket charges !!)
13) beer, wine anything else i buy!
14) estate tax ( i can't even die without being taxed!)
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I agree...we get nickled and dimed with taxes. Why? (you are gonna hate this). Too much government. (you don't hate this?...let me finish). ON THE LOCAL LEVEL!

I need to deal with village, town, county, state and federal taxes. (not any more...moved to florida, but that's how it was on Long Island...worse in NYC, which I did as well). Why? What the hell for? So we can waste more money on more elections to see who will sit on panels to decide how many minutes we get for a quarter in a parking meter?

OK..sorry for the rant. But a more efficient centralized government would eliminate virtually your entire list. Except for.....


Estate Taxes.

And if you have so much money that you exceed the exemption, then do you expect anyone to really care for your plight? Besides, people with estate tax issues have their plans in place. Not that complicated. Insurance is non taxable. So get enough insurance to cover the taxes. Just like all the other rich people.

You complained about your mortgage. Renters don't get equity and a tax break. You do. Your real estate taxes are included in your mortgage apparently (as are mine). Most of it is for the school system. A little for garbage pickup, (which we need). The rest is a waste. More local government crap.

If you don't want to pay high real estate taxes, you should be living in a place with an even worse school system. You have kids? Don't you want them to get a decent education? No kids? Wrong neighborhood. Go live with the retirees. They get exemptions from school taxes. That's the reason they have "retirement communities" with age rules and no kids allowed. Not old enough? Just live in an area with really bad schools as I mentioned. Solutions are there.

Yes, there are some federal taxes on your list. But you don't need to fly.....you take a vacation, part of the cost. Flying is not a necessity if you are a trader. (or just about anyone now with video conferencing). And yeah, there's a few cents here and there on the other items that may be federal. But not much. Sure not on your water bill. Not your tolls. Not sales tax. Etc.

Peace,
:)Rs7

PS: I give up on the midget and pig thing:confused:
 
RS7,

You've got it backwards. As much government as possible should be handled locally so the people getting the service can decide whether or not to pay for it. As you suggest, if you don't want lavish local government, move somewhere cheaper. Can't do that if it's all federal, which is why pol's try so hard to shove it all upstream to Washington. Also, you would be hard-pressed to demonstrate a correlation between money spent on schools and results. In fact, there may be a negative correlation.
 
this thread went a bit OT... lol

taxation rates are set at the highest possible level without incurring a revolt from the taxed. services and government jobs are then set according to how much money is available, either through tax receipts or by debt (again, the maximum allowable).

all the levels of government taxes and sales taxes and estate taxes and school taxes and fees for taxpayer-funded services and tolls for taxpayer-funded roads are just means to distribute the load - if they were presented as a single number people would go ballistic.

add up all of those numbers sometime, it's really staggering.
 
Quote from Madison:

this thread went a bit OT... lol

taxation rates are set at the highest possible level without incurring a revolt from the taxed.

- if they were presented as a single number people would go ballistic.

add up all of those numbers sometime, it's really staggering.
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Great post! On the money.

Off topic....well how much can really be said about Cheney? Mondo says he's a great man, so that's that.

And yeah, you are exactly right about spreading the taxes out. If it was all lumped together, we would all suffer sticker shock. No doubt about that. But maybe the pain would be worth it. Like jumping into a cold swimming pool. Get it over with.

Would it be fair for some guy in Iowa to pay the G.W. Bridge toll? Case to made either way. Maybe he's getting govt. farm aid. If everything were more centralized, everyone would complain. If everyone would complain, you would figure someone would be the beneficiary. But we all know no one would consider themselves to be the one to benefit.

I have a friend that's a judge in matrimonial court. He tells me virtually all judges in divorces give their decisions to the lawyers at least a day after the trial ends. They don't want a scene in their courtrooms. This guy always makes his decision on the spot. Says he likes to keep score.

If one person in the divorce leaves happy and one unhappy, he knows he made a bad decision. If they both leave unhappy, he knows he made a fair decision. (He has never seen both parties leave happy).

Sort of the same thing with taxing. If everyone is bummed, it's probably the fair way to do it.

Peace,
:)Rs7
 
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