When Mentoring

Quote from Palatine:

On some days they simply do not show up and obviously miss out on great opportunities.

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"I had a terrible day, I shouldn't have done anything, everything would have been fine."
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One of the most difficult lessons to learn, I found, is when not to trade.

When one can't think straight (just had an an argument with a dear one or has a hangover), the best trading decision one can take is to take a day off.

This realisation has made the second most significant contribution to my bottom line (after accepting I can't predict every market move).
 
Quote from deadbroke:

Hardly. The op's looking for a new line of work as a mentor. He's given up or near to giving up on trading for himself.
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Thanks for your criticism. I am obviously not giving up my job as a money printer. Trading is a very profitable business for me in all market environments. What I'm more concerned about is the student's lack of discipline for mastering this business. Perhaps it is also due to the fact that nothing is charged, so it is not taken that seriously.

I believe in online tutoring, even though it may take longer. You can learn from someone who is not living nearby. And it seemingly works for some.

My first post was more a rant to students who should not bother approaching a mentor if they don't bring die-hard discipline like Karate Kid, and a warning to those who consider mentoring. Get an idea of a student's profile first.
  • Does the student really want it? It requires time and effort on both sides, perhaps even drawdowns to get where you want to be. Understand that we are here because of passion, a passion to perform (sorry Deutsche Bank).
  • Is there a background? This one is not a must, but definitely an advantage. A person who has had bad losses is more able to deal with another loss than a complete newbie. They all say they know there is a risk, but once they see a real loss in their account, they get stressed up.
  • Is the student sufficiently capitalized? If a student trades the ES on a $5,000 account, he is asking for trouble. Even if he is properly capitalized (say $25,000 minimum), can he handle a loss of $500? Otherwise use smaller instruments (ETFs, CFDs).
  • What is the schedule like? A student who cannot show up daily during the RTH will obviously miss out on opportunities that the mentor would have pointed out. We are not here to offer financial services by trading their accounts. "Listen, I don't have time tomorrow, can you trade my account?"
 
Quote from NoDoji:

Ha ha, you didn't know me back in the days of the -$6000, -$10,000 and -$18,000 losses from holding positions against the prevailing trend until I was absolutely, positively certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that "maybe this trade isn't such a good idea". Back in the days when, while in such a trade, each pullback in the trend was a "ahhh, now price is finally going back where it belongs" moment, and the whole time my mentor is patiently explaining to me again and again and again month after month how to identify a trend, enter the trend, hold through normal retraces and milk that trend. I milked the trend all right...in the wrong direction! :eek:
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Wow. Ouch. I just wasted $30 on a trading book that I was hoping would gives some fresh new ideas but turns out to be worthless.
 
Quote from Palatine:

Thanks for your criticism. I am obviously not giving up my job as a money printer. Trading is a very profitable business for me in all market environments. What I'm more concerned about is the student's lack of discipline for mastering this business. Perhaps it is also due to the fact that nothing is charged, so it is not taken that seriously.

I believe in online tutoring, even though it may take longer. You can learn from someone who is not living nearby. And it seemingly works for some.

My first post was more a rant to students who should not bother approaching a mentor if they don't bring die-hard discipline like Karate Kid, and a warning to those who consider mentoring. Get an idea of a student's profile first.
  • Does the student really want it? It requires time and effort on both sides, perhaps even drawdowns to get where you want to be. Understand that we are here because of passion, a passion to perform (sorry Deutsche Bank).
  • Is there a background? This one is not a must, but definitely an advantage. A person who has had bad losses is more able to deal with another loss than a complete newbie. They all say they know there is a risk, but once they see a real loss in their account, they get stressed up.
  • Is the student sufficiently capitalized? If a student trades the ES on a $5,000 account, he is asking for trouble. Even if he is properly capitalized (say $25,000 minimum), can he handle a loss of $500? Otherwise use smaller instruments (ETFs, CFDs).
  • What is the schedule like? A student who cannot show up daily during the RTH will obviously miss out on opportunities that the mentor would have pointed out. We are not here to offer financial services by trading their accounts. "Listen, I don't have time tomorrow, can you trade my account?"
More...



Your missiles tantalize, thrill, tickle, fondle and orgasmatize any newbie listening - where did you learn to do this? Did you acquire this technique by osmosis in the womb or when you saw that Nodoji had no bra on? :)

Trading is a very profitable business ..... ..... ding

mastering this business ..... ..... ding

nothing is charged ..... ...... ding-ding

online tutoring ...... ..... ding

undercap/ adeq. cap =5k/25k ....... ..... bingo

(the 5K clowns eliminated by subliminal design, only >25k will show up)


now you wait = they will come a-calling.

nice advertisement, free too and didn't even get caught.
 
Quote from wrbtrader:

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My point is that mentoring someone in person increases the odds of success in comparison to online mentoring based on the fact the mentor has a chance to see what a trader is really doing because we all know there's more to successful trading than trade signals.
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Mark [/B]
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+1 :) it increases the odds of success much,....much higher!!!:D
 
You can't teach passion. Period. I have people approach me all the time wanting to 'get into trading'. I always tell them the same thing, that trading is not a career where you take a course, learn it then start working. It's not like being a plumber or engineer or mechanic. I tell them it's more like being a musician or artist.

Does someone think one day "I want to quit my job and start painting" and really think they'll just start selling their art at galleries? People who end up doing that successfully are doing it because they are driven to it by a passion for it.

The ones who make it in trading are the ones who have it in their blood. They are always thinking about it. They work weekends, they are up early. They fill notebooks with ideas and have a collection of failed ones. It's always on the mind.

And they're humble. If you are lacking humility, the market will provide it for you.

Good mentor + passionate and humble student = profitable trader. But the student has to bring those qualities to the table.
 
Quote from lescor:

I always tell them... that trading is not a career where you take a course, learn it then start working. It's not like being a plumber or engineer or mechanic. I tell them it's more like being a musician or artist.

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The ones who make it in trading are the ones who have it in their blood. They are always thinking about it. They work weekends, they are up early. They fill notebooks with ideas and have a collection of failed ones. It's always on the mind.
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Hi Lescor, it's interesting that you singled out "being a plumber or engineer or mechanic". These are all professions where a specific qualification is legally required to practice a profession and there is no way around it. In fact, such jobs are very few (you can add doctors, lawyers and a few others) but most jobs don't require a specific qualification. Trading is just among those "most", where a specific qualification is not required. It's probably more like selling burgers or securitized mortages.

A few traders that I know "made" it (which means they have been in the profession for a while and keep doing well enough to keep making a living) seem to be near opposite of what you describe. They finish early, take a long lunch break if they can and certainly don't spend sleepless nights thinking of trading.

Maybe what you are talking about is passion of a beginner in general. When you start doing something new and challenging you may be compelled to work long hours and think of the job outside normal working hours. You need all that to catch up with the people who have been in the profession for a while and are more experienced and proficient. Once what you do becomes more of a routine than a challenge, the passion may be gone too...
 
Do you know why trading has such a high failure rate? Because it has fewer barriers to entry than almost any other job. Even to get a minimum wage job, you have to show up with clothes on and fill out an application.

To start trading, you need to deposit a small amount of money into a trading account, find access to a computer and click buy/sell buttons. The more unqualified people able to get into a job, the more that will fail as competition thins out the herd.

The only job with fewer barriers to entry is panhandler.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

The only job with fewer barriers to entry is panhandler.
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I wonder about the success/failure rate of panhandlers.

Are there books or training courses? Would a mentor be of value?:)
 
Quote from LeeD:

Hi Lescor, it's interesting that you singled out "being a plumber or engineer or mechanic". These are all professions where a specific qualification is legally required to practice a profession and there is no way around it. In fact, such jobs are very few (you can add doctors, lawyers and a few others) but most jobs don't require a specific qualification. Trading is just among those "most", where a specific qualification is not required. It's probably more like selling burgers or securitized mortages.

A few traders that I know "made" it (which means they have been in the profession for a while and keep doing well enough to keep making a living) seem to be near opposite of what you describe. They finish early, take a long lunch break if they can and certainly don't spend sleepless nights thinking of trading.

Maybe what you are talking about is passion of a beginner in general. When you start doing something new and challenging you may be compelled to work long hours and think of the job outside normal working hours. You need all that to catch up with the people who have been in the profession for a while and are more experienced and proficient. Once what you do becomes more of a routine than a challenge, the passion may be gone too...
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Yes, I'm referring to "making it" part. Being able to survive the learning curve. Once you get past a certain point, trading can become easy. You can dial back the drive and almost put it on cruise. I've been doing this full time for almost nine years now and most people think I'm a slacker or a bum.
 
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