rally,
i see it must be too cold to be running that Sea Ray at bikini island....yet
lol i threw a small party for MDW but yes, unfortunately, it's been too cold for a visit to bikini island.
When is the right time to quit your job and trade full time?
- Thread starter jinxu
- Start date
lol i threw a small party for MDW but yes, unfortunately, it's been too cold for a visit to bikini island.
Thank you for making these particular points. I do believe that many do not distinguish between "the mind of the daytrader" and "the mind of the investor." Great post!
why do you think you are doing good in trading? Remember in the last 5 years, even a caveman with dumb stock picking is doing well. Did you buy AAPL and it went up and you call yourself good in trading?
Do you hate your job because you love trading or you hate your job because you hate your job?
Do you know you wont be able to confidently trade when you quit your job and know that there will be no paycheck coming?
Do you hate your job because you love trading or you hate your job because you hate your job?
Do you know you wont be able to confidently trade when you quit your job and know that there will be no paycheck coming?
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"100% return on 10% drawdown. If you say thats not possible then that just shows me you arent qualified to speak on behalf of daytraders."
Calling it "daytrading" doesn't suddenly make your returns bigger. Don't be that guy who thinks semantics changes the math, it's all the same thing. Whether you trade on short term cycles, or longer term, it's all just about maximizing risk adjusted returns in the long-run. If you think trading daily, or hourly maximizes your returns, great good for you.
We're all trying to maximize our returns. I personally would qualify as something around a "weektrader" since I'm 100% options based and take new trades daily, with an average hold period of about 6 days. But this is all semantics, there's no difference. Call yourself whatever the hell you want, it doesn't change the fact that returns are returns and they need to be VERIFIED.
In my 17 years in the business making what equates to the top 1 percentile of long-term returns, I've only met a handful of people in all my years who has a verifiable track record of higher than 30% a year in the long-run. That includes day traders, hedge funders, private equity guys, and everybody in-between. 30% a year in the long-run is just about as good as it gets. (and not for nothin' but I've met many of the most famous traders you've heard of)
These crazy aberrations of staggeringly high returns do exist, but statistically speaking though it mine as well be zero because of how unbelievably rare it is. Besides a tiny handful, it's mostly just urban legend. And anyone who is a one in a million trader who has done that well, it's always the product of a few good years when they traded during a perfect storm of impeccable timing. It's not consistent, massive annual returns. It's 10,000% one year, and then normal lower returns most of the rest which equates to a long-term annualized of something that sounds very high.
And you my friend are sure as shit not one either. Please come back down to earth. I realize this is an anonymous chat forum, but you are way way over the top. You have now gone solidly into the "what the F are you smoking territory."
I challenge anybody here, ANYBODY here to show me a verifiable track record longer than 10 years that shows 30% annualized or higher. I don't care if you're a day trader, option trader, or long term investor that rapes people on the initial negotiations ala Warren Buffett style, I don't care.
Show me 30% for 10+ years. We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...
It's funny how of the three or four investor conferences I go to every year with many of the worlds big players, nobody in those rooms would ever claim to make 30% annualized over their career. Yet on Elite Trader, it's dime a dozen. Ha, go figure...
Calling it "daytrading" doesn't suddenly make your returns bigger. Don't be that guy who thinks semantics changes the math, it's all the same thing. Whether you trade on short term cycles, or longer term, it's all just about maximizing risk adjusted returns in the long-run. If you think trading daily, or hourly maximizes your returns, great good for you.
We're all trying to maximize our returns. I personally would qualify as something around a "weektrader" since I'm 100% options based and take new trades daily, with an average hold period of about 6 days. But this is all semantics, there's no difference. Call yourself whatever the hell you want, it doesn't change the fact that returns are returns and they need to be VERIFIED.
In my 17 years in the business making what equates to the top 1 percentile of long-term returns, I've only met a handful of people in all my years who has a verifiable track record of higher than 30% a year in the long-run. That includes day traders, hedge funders, private equity guys, and everybody in-between. 30% a year in the long-run is just about as good as it gets. (and not for nothin' but I've met many of the most famous traders you've heard of)
These crazy aberrations of staggeringly high returns do exist, but statistically speaking though it mine as well be zero because of how unbelievably rare it is. Besides a tiny handful, it's mostly just urban legend. And anyone who is a one in a million trader who has done that well, it's always the product of a few good years when they traded during a perfect storm of impeccable timing. It's not consistent, massive annual returns. It's 10,000% one year, and then normal lower returns most of the rest which equates to a long-term annualized of something that sounds very high.
And you my friend are sure as shit not one either. Please come back down to earth. I realize this is an anonymous chat forum, but you are way way over the top. You have now gone solidly into the "what the F are you smoking territory."
I challenge anybody here, ANYBODY here to show me a verifiable track record longer than 10 years that shows 30% annualized or higher. I don't care if you're a day trader, option trader, or long term investor that rapes people on the initial negotiations ala Warren Buffett style, I don't care.
Show me 30% for 10+ years. We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...
It's funny how of the three or four investor conferences I go to every year with many of the worlds big players, nobody in those rooms would ever claim to make 30% annualized over their career. Yet on Elite Trader, it's dime a dozen. Ha, go figure...
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hajimow ...... Your observation is based purely on hindsight, it's a myth that "Everyone Is A Genius In A Bull Market". I would say that most people, and especially on ET are short term traders - not the buy-and-hold type. An experienced trader can easily lag the overall market, or even lose money in a "Bull Market" with long positions - it's all in the timing.
And anybody that does hang on to AAPL during a lengthy bullish run is a good trader - he doesn't got shaken out during the downturns.
You did not get my point. I was asking whether he is active and does short term trade and is ready to manage losses if market crashes and take the other side of his trade or just has some long term positions like AAPL and they are going up and he is happy. I know many people were almost on the verge of suicide when apple went down from about 700 to 200 while they just watched their account diminish. Don't argue with me that "what about now?". A good trader who is trading for income should minimize the account drawdowns by managing the risk. If you are trading for excitement, that is another story. My hat is off to a trader/investor who had a reasonable position in AAPL and did not sell when it went down, but if you are doing it for living, you should have sold it when it started to go down. If you did not and AAPL went up, it gave you a bad lesson that you can always hold on to your losses and they will go up. That is not a good strategy.hajimow ...... Your observation is based purely on hindsight, it's a myth that "Everyone Is A Genius In A Bull Market". I would say that most people, and especially on ET are short term traders - not the buy-and-hold type. An experienced trader can easily lag the overall market, or even lose money in a "Bull Market" with long positions - it's all in the timing.
And anybody that does hang on to AAPL during a lengthy bullish run is a good trader - he doesn't got shaken out during the downturns.
"100% return on 10% drawdown. If you say thats not possible then that just shows me you arent qualified to speak on behalf of daytraders."
Calling it "daytrading" doesn't suddenly make your returns bigger. Don't be that guy who thinks semantics changes the math, it's all the same thing. Whether you trade on short term cycles, or longer term, it's all just about maximizing risk adjusted returns in the long-run. If you think trading daily, or hourly maximizes your returns, great good for you.
We're all trying to maximize our returns. I personally would qualify as something around a "weektrader" since I'm 100% options based and take new trades daily, with an average hold period of about 6 days. But this is all semantics, there's no difference. Call yourself whatever the hell you want, it doesn't change the fact that returns are returns and they need to be VERIFIED.
In my 17 years in the business making what equates to the top 1 percentile of long-term returns, I've only met a handful of people in all my years who has a verifiable track record of higher than 30% a year in the long-run. That includes day traders, hedge funders, private equity guys, and everybody in-between. 30% a year in the long-run is just about as good as it gets. (and not for nothin' but I've met many of the most famous traders you've heard of)
These crazy aberrations of staggeringly high returns do exist, but statistically speaking though it mine as well be zero because of how unbelievably rare it is. Besides a tiny handful, it's mostly just urban legend. And anyone who is a one in a million trader who has done that well, it's always the product of a few good years when they traded during a perfect storm of impeccable timing. It's not consistent, massive annual returns. It's 10,000% one year, and then normal lower returns most of the rest which equates to a long-term annualized of something that sounds very high.
And you my friend are sure as shit not one either. Please come back down to earth. I realize this is an anonymous chat forum, but you are way way over the top. You have now gone solidly into the "what the F are you smoking territory."
I challenge anybody here, ANYBODY here to show me a verifiable track record longer than 10 years that shows 30% annualized or higher. I don't care if you're a day trader, option trader, or long term investor that rapes people on the initial negotiations ala Warren Buffett style, I don't care.
Show me 30% for 10+ years. We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...
It's funny how of the three or four investor conferences I go to every year with many of the worlds big players, nobody in those rooms would ever claim to make 30% annualized over their career. Yet on Elite Trader, it's dime a dozen. Ha, go figure...
"It's funny how of the three or four investor conferences I go to every year with many of the worlds big players, nobody in those rooms would ever claim to make 30% annualized over their career."
I know that the difference between a trader and investor is not black and white, but the picture you are painting of yourself seems to be much more towards the latter. You keep beating a dead horse with your 10% annualized FOREVER comments.
Since you can not grasp the difference between trading and investing let's go to the far other end of the spectrum and take a look at some of the major HFTs. Do you think that Virtu Getco or Jump chase returns? NO...they could give two shits about what their net return is, all they care about his how much money they make based on the opportunity (volume/volatility) that market gives to them. I am willing to bet that if you annualized Getco and Jump's returns over the past 10+ years that they would be well over your magical 30% number with a max drawdown of 0%. However, we will never be able to verify it since they are so hush hush about everything so it must not be true.
The bottom line is traders should not chase returns. They should just capitalize on the opportunity that the market gives to them. Investors on the other hand...well nevermind you seem to be an expert on that topic.
"I am willing to bet that if you annualized Getco and Jump's returns over the past 10+ years that they would be well over your magical 30% number with a max drawdown of 0%. However, we will never be able to verify it since they are so hush hush about everything so it must not be true."
Then you bet wrong. Simple as that, you're wrong. Returns of 30% annualized with 0% drawdown don't exist.
You guys are like those crazy f'ing idiots who think magic is real, or UFO abductions happen. Why has a scientist never been able to confirm any of it in a closed experiment? Because it's NOT REAL !
Why has nobody ever been able to verify the type of returns you're talking about? Because they don't exist !
All the bullshit stories of massive trading returns that you've Googled and are mesmerized by aren't true. When you include all survivorship biases, trick statistics that make it look sexier than it is, and all the failed trade systems that disappear from the record, you're always left with something less than 30% annualized in the long-run. That's as good as it gets, and you can ask any multi billionaire trader and they'll tell you the same thing. 30% annualized long-term is as good as it gets. "day trading" doesn't change the math. More occurrences is just your personal method of maximizing risk adjusted returns. It doesn't magically make your returns bigger. Day traders don't make any more money trading than option traders, hedge funders, or private equity guys. The best in the biz is always around 30%.
If "day trading" was proven to make more money, everybody would be f'ing day trading. It's basic game theory. Stop it, you're sounding foolish. It's all the same shit. Maximize your risk adjusted returns, in whatever method you think is best, PERIOD
Same challenge. Quit arguing, quit sounding like a broken record, and step up. You guys are day traders with your own accounts right? You're not managing OPM.
it would take exactly 10 seconds to take a screenshot of your gains keeper and block out personal data. 10 F'ing seconds. But no, you'd rather talk and talk and talk and try to sound like you didn't start trading last year.
Fine, it's a chat forum, do what you want. I'm sure you're one of the best day traders in history, no doubt about it...
Then you bet wrong. Simple as that, you're wrong. Returns of 30% annualized with 0% drawdown don't exist.
You guys are like those crazy f'ing idiots who think magic is real, or UFO abductions happen. Why has a scientist never been able to confirm any of it in a closed experiment? Because it's NOT REAL !
Why has nobody ever been able to verify the type of returns you're talking about? Because they don't exist !
All the bullshit stories of massive trading returns that you've Googled and are mesmerized by aren't true. When you include all survivorship biases, trick statistics that make it look sexier than it is, and all the failed trade systems that disappear from the record, you're always left with something less than 30% annualized in the long-run. That's as good as it gets, and you can ask any multi billionaire trader and they'll tell you the same thing. 30% annualized long-term is as good as it gets. "day trading" doesn't change the math. More occurrences is just your personal method of maximizing risk adjusted returns. It doesn't magically make your returns bigger. Day traders don't make any more money trading than option traders, hedge funders, or private equity guys. The best in the biz is always around 30%.
If "day trading" was proven to make more money, everybody would be f'ing day trading. It's basic game theory. Stop it, you're sounding foolish. It's all the same shit. Maximize your risk adjusted returns, in whatever method you think is best, PERIOD
Same challenge. Quit arguing, quit sounding like a broken record, and step up. You guys are day traders with your own accounts right? You're not managing OPM.
it would take exactly 10 seconds to take a screenshot of your gains keeper and block out personal data. 10 F'ing seconds. But no, you'd rather talk and talk and talk and try to sound like you didn't start trading last year.
Fine, it's a chat forum, do what you want. I'm sure you're one of the best day traders in history, no doubt about it...
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Can you give the good example and post your returns from the last 10 years? It will take only 10 seconds. If you don't post them it means you don't make these returns. I use the same logic as you.
Nobody can beat X%, but you write yourself that your are in the top 1 percentile. So you do extraodinary, almost impossible things, but others can't?
Modesty?