When is a swing point significant, in your opinion?

Quote from Redneck:

OP’s been waiting 10 years for an answer (wonder if he is still trading, or even around)


Anyway – imo a swing point (pivot/ turn… or potential pivot/ turn – in my vernacular) is significant when;

Price respects it – at least for the time being


This respect is shown in the follow manor;

Price zooms away from the pivot / turn... or price retests and then moves away (the latter being less significant)

Volume – either in abundance, or absent – is a good tell… as is the strength or weakness reflected in the bars

===============================

On the flipside;


These pivots / turns make for good targets – once price has made a top or bottom in the long term trend and is headed the other way


And – you’ll typically (typically is not always btw) see some sort of bounce once price returns and hits these previous pivots/ turns – before ultimately busting through and continuing on its way to the next top or bottom (further indication you properly identified it initially)

================================

One should also not confuse these pivots/ turns w/ typical retracements created throughout a trading day - although occasionally they are one in the same... when you see that - its money



Just my dumb ass opinion of course

RN
More...

Do you think the OP is still waiting ?

Price movement is clearly defined

A relationship between strength and high/low volume is clearly mentioned.

(so far it seems you are on a standard chart in this thread at least.)

I look for this turn around you speak of in long term and short term trends.

I can see them and they are often correct. but to trade them in another story. On a 5 min chart we see a pattern or a trend, on a 15 min chart we see the same maybe indication of something else. (not enough data)
we go to the 1 hour, now we may see the trend out side of the 5 min trend but we get a hint of another trend and the daily chart is a good key.

At this point I find myself trading a 1 min based on a daily chart. A trend on the 5 min is noise on the daily.

Daily can tell us to long or to prefer long. So we wait for a long opportunity.

The hole thing is a mess. Direction comes from daily. goals come from hourly entry from 5 min and exit is on the 1 min. If we are looking at different time frames we are taking information from each.

does your direction,entry and exit /ratios come from a single time frame, if so why look at other charts?

Also, a fine line can always be trusted in a time frame. but the same line transferred by a platform to a smaller time frame cant be trusted.

Ideally a 1 min chart going back 5 years would best suit me, but i would have to be able to step back and see it all together. switching from 5 min to 15 min to an hour distorts. noise in a 1 hour is a trend in a 5 min. it is important data.

How do you manage in this mess of unjustly grouping mins in to hours ?
Or do you have a super high res screen ?

I need that long term line to be precise enough to be valid in a 1 min chart. (or maybe a tick chart)

"One should also not confuse these pivots/ turns w/ typical retracements created throughout a trading day - although occasionally they are one in the same... when you see that - its money"
 
Quote from InTheZone:

When is a swing point significant, in your opinion?

Thanks.

-- ITZ
More...


Probably when it's too late. Seriously though, price action and volume signature are the best measure. The balance of confirmation - not too early and not too late - all in the eye of the individual trader of course.
 
In TESTING, not actual results, my best definition of a "swing" on EODD data is ( 60-70% profittable, decent MAE, expectancy, PF ) ,
so not classic MR as I understand it.
It excludes the recent price behaviour of the likes of RIMM, BAC, FSLR, NFLX.
My only point here is those 4 have had some hellava swings but
not by my definition. Using the mean, SD bands, price rate of change, etc to define "swings" fails to detect/filter and
provide profit under test with these types of stocks.
I have to use a break-out method with these types of stocks. And am now viewing that as just fine and necessary
as that will give me a grand total of 2 systems( +correlated but...)
I beleive I have read a bit here on ET that daytraders run into this sort of thing on a strong trend day.(A lack of their setups)
Incidentally, I have never been able to introduce daily volume into my strategy and get any improvement...i exclude it.
 
Quote from InTheZone:

When is a swing point significant, in your opinion?

Thanks.

-- ITZ
More...
===============
Well as this answer shows;
10 years makes a difference.:cool: Weekly, monthly moves are important.................................................................
 
Traitor

Reading through this post hurts my head

Gleaning out your questions and responding;


No I don’t think the OP is waiting, or even around

============

I trade off the 5 min… I also have two higher TFs, and one lower – up at all times

The higher gives me a view of the overall… the lower gives me a more detailed view (akin to using a magnifying glass – same view only in finer detail)

And all are plain ole candlestick charts
============

On any given day, for any given instrument, at any given point in time – price is the EXACT same on a tick chart - as it is all the way through to a century chart, even beyond

If your platform is mucking up lines/ context from one TF to the next – get a better platform, or learn to compensate

=============

If I ever become trading czar – my first edict will be to ban all aspiring traders from using a 1 min chart – for minimum two years

They think it somehow offers enhanced trading (reduced risk, better setups, whatever) – it doesn't and never has

What is does do – is chop their account to shreds… gets them disorientated… feeds their need for “action”


Proper use of a smaller TF;

Learn how smaller TF candles build (are the foundation of) higher TF candles

No matter the TF, it is all exactly the same information..., simply sliced and diced however one chooses

============

I manage it by keeping things as simple as I am humanly capable

By ensuring my chosen TF’s build into each other…, not contradict… (which, granted is not always possibly – so at these time I simply sit and watch)

And by sticking my opinion, my ego, my whatever in a bag and simply following my plan and methodology to the letter

My screen is LCD – I think
==========

A suggestion Sir;

Learn to condense.., clarify…, and consolidate your thoughts – there is no way anyone can trade with a muddled mind

Trading requires clear, concise thinking…, and actions – 100% of the time.

Otherwise we sit on our hands till we’re able

RN



Quote from traitor786:

Do you think the OP is still waiting ?

Price movement is clearly defined

A relationship between strength and high/low volume is clearly mentioned.

(so far it seems you are on a standard chart in this thread at least.)

I look for this turn around you speak of in long term and short term trends.

I can see them and they are often correct. but to trade them in another story. On a 5 min chart we see a pattern or a trend, on a 15 min chart we see the same maybe indication of something else. (not enough data)
we go to the 1 hour, now we may see the trend out side of the 5 min trend but we get a hint of another trend and the daily chart is a good key.

At this point I find myself trading a 1 min based on a daily chart. A trend on the 5 min is noise on the daily.

Daily can tell us to long or to prefer long. So we wait for a long opportunity.

The hole thing is a mess. Direction comes from daily. goals come from hourly entry from 5 min and exit is on the 1 min. If we are looking at different time frames we are taking information from each.

does your direction,entry and exit /ratios come from a single time frame, if so why look at other charts?

Also, a fine line can always be trusted in a time frame. but the same line transferred by a platform to a smaller time frame cant be trusted.

Ideally a 1 min chart going back 5 years would best suit me, but i would have to be able to step back and see it all together. switching from 5 min to 15 min to an hour distorts. noise in a 1 hour is a trend in a 5 min. it is important data.

How do you manage in this mess of unjustly grouping mins in to hours ?
Or do you have a super high res screen ?

I need that long term line to be precise enough to be valid in a 1 min chart. (or maybe a tick chart)

"One should also not confuse these pivots/ turns w/ typical retracements created throughout a trading day - although occasionally they are one in the same... when you see that - its money"
More...
 
Quote from Redneck:

Traitor

Reading through this post hurts my head

Gleaning out your questions and responding;


No I don’t think the OP is waiting, or even around

============

I trade off the 5 min… I also have two higher TFs, and one lower – up at all times

The higher gives me a view of the overall… the lower gives me a more detailed view (akin to using a magnifying glass – same view only in finer detail)

And all are plain ole candlestick charts
============

On any given day, for any given instrument, at any given point in time – price is the EXACT same on a tick chart - as it is all the way through to a century chart, even beyond

If your platform is mucking up lines/ context from one TF to the next – get a better platform, or learn to compensate

=============

If I ever become trading czar – my first edict will be to ban all aspiring traders from using a 1 min chart – for minimum two years

They think it somehow offers enhanced trading (reduced risk, better setups, whatever) – it doesn't and never has

What is does do – is chop their account to shreds… gets them disorientated… feeds their need for “action”


Proper use of a smaller TF;

Learn how smaller TF candles build (are the foundation of) higher TF candles

No matter the TF, it is all exactly the same information..., simply sliced and diced however one chooses

============

I manage it by keeping things as simple as I am humanly capable

By ensuring my chosen TF’s build into each other…, not contradict… (which, granted is not always possibly – so at these time I simply sit and watch)

And by sticking my opinion, my ego, my whatever in a bag and simply following my plan and methodology to the letter

My screen is LCD – I think
==========

A suggestion Sir;

Learn to condense.., clarify…, and consolidate your thoughts – there is no way anyone can trade with a muddled mind

Trading requires clear, concise thinking…, and actions – 100% of the time.

Otherwise we sit on our hands till we’re able

RN
More...


Thanks RN, Sorry about that , I try to limit myself



on the daily price comes near a trend line.
long term yells buy
mid term says are not in a down trend.
and short term says says buy

problem here is lets say we buy on the short term 5 min. very easily we can be on a retrace in the mid term. and the long term, well anything can happen really it is just a candle it can go down for hours and still respect the chart,

these never all come together and all run in the same direction do they ? if so one could pop up a 15 min and chances are it is off.
 
Just to clear some of this up

Changing TFs to suit your view – is pure curve fitting

The price ain’t doing what I think it should..., so let me find a TF that matches my opinion


Above is NOT to be confused with trying different TF’s to get a better read – totally different
==========================

And yes, at times they all do line up – that’s no brainer money


RN
 
Certain PA matters if it's in a combination with other factors. I profitably traded today. I then was looking at an old chart from another trader and saw an indicator that I did not recognize. So I went looking for it. I then found and indicator designed for equities that actually works better than the indicator I was using to trade my charts. I then added this indicator, and saw that it gave me greater confirmation for the PA or TA trade that worked anyway and worked better than the indicator I was using from before.

For me TA and PA are about the same. I think the difference is PA is based more on what price is doing on the charts, and TA is based more on what the indicators are telling me.
 
Quote from oraclewizard77:

Certain PA matters if it's in a combination with other factors. I profitably traded today. I then was looking at an old chart from another trader and saw an indicator that I did not recognize. So I went looking for it. I then found and indicator designed for equities that actually works better than the indicator I was using to trade my charts. I then added this indicator, and saw that it gave me greater confirmation for the PA or TA trade that worked anyway and worked better than the indicator I was using from before.

For me TA and PA are about the same. I think the difference is PA is based more on what price is doing on the charts, and TA is based more on what the indicators are telling me.
More...


PA is sensitive to auction price increments. TA is indicator sensitive.
 
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