When Bush whacks Iraq

[rs7]

Originally posted by Rigel
These people don't care about God or Islam, they care about power and themselves (the leaders). They're just using religion as an excuse and a motivator to achieve their real goals.

There is an excellent essay by an Egyptian journalist in the new issue of Time magazine this week. He says essentially the same thing.

He says that the people living under these rulers live such miserable lives, that death becomes an especially appealing escape. And since a death devoted to their supposed religious cause is rewarded by "paradise", it becomes an easy and attractive way out of their horrible existences.

No leaders become intentional martyrs.

As far as killing each other, they do it all the time. Sadat's assasination comes to mind.

As far as courage in the zealot leaders, we know they are cowards. Where is UBL? Where was Nasser during the wars with Israel? How many times did Arafat run and hide? Where was Saddam during the Gulf War? Where is he now?

 

[taodr]

Paradise !!!. An arab oil trader told me these suicide bombers' vision of paradise. Firstly they don't want some stinking dessert rats for women, no they want virgins but these virgins must be blue eyed blondes and they'll live in an "Italian Villa" with "French Gardens", Now they must have Mercedes SUV'S. Dell computers and lets not forget lots and lots of Sony 53 inch XBR'S so they can watch bubblevision (CNBC)

 

[aphexcoil]

taodr,

LOL. Yes, I have heard about the "virgins in paradise" interpretation of death, too.

Did you know that, in order to deter some of the arabs, the United States considered burying Al Queda members with pieces of pork?

aphie

 

[taodr]

They'll eat ANYTHING if they think no one's watching.

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by OHLC


The 'peace and tolerance stuff' applies as long as they are a minority, when the demographics switch...well just loo at any country turned musl_im

you are right on the money OHLC. You might want to do something about the clarity of your writing. I was initially under the impression you were disagreeing with me, and was looking forward to seeing by what creative methods you would come to the defense of Islam. Now I see you are against it. Good work!

 

[rs7]

Originally posted by daniel_m


you are right on the money OHLC. You might want to do something about the clarity of your writing. I was initially under the impression you were disagreeing with me, and was looking forward to seeing by what creative methods you would come to the defense of Islam. Now I see you are against it. Good work!

I thought the same thing. Obviously english is not his first language.
I understand his feelings, but I also think he used poor examples.
The largest minorities will always take the bad rap wherever they are. (and he really made them sound exactly like the stereotype of gypsies).
Peace,
RS7

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by rs7

. (and he really made them sound exactly like the stereotype of gypsies).

interesting that you bring up gypsies..i happen to have 50% (give or take) gypsy blood. while i agree that stereotyping is unfortunate, it is quite often based on some aspect of reality.

just as individual humans hold certain values that form the basis for their actions, so too do societies. unfortunately the values commonly held by gypsy communities are not always conducive to mutually beneficial relations with other members of society.

now, when you have centuries of history of such stereotyping, it often becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. just another problem with the ancient mindsets that still exist in europe and will continue to hold back that continent from reaching its full potential.

having had the benefit of living in both american and australia, i can tell you, the mindset over here is vastly superior to what you'll find in europe (more so eastern europe) and the middle east. actually, as a side point, i lived in a city of over 3million in australia (melbourne), whose ethnic mix is a sight to behold (huge groups of chinese, vietnamese, filipinos, turks, greeks (3rd largest greek city in the world!), macedonians, croats, lebanese, italians, , maltese) and yet race is an absolute non-issue. You never see race being discussed as an issue in newspapers or on tv. you never hear of any group complaining at maltreatment because of racial issues. statistics on racial mixes are never quoted to make points. it is AWESOME! (if only they would lower the insane marginal rates of 48.5% that kick in, on an exchange rate basis, at $35,000 (!!!), it would be the top nation in the world)

 

[rs7]

Originally posted by daniel_m


interesting that you bring up gypsies..i happen to have 50% (give or take) gypsy blood. while i agree that stereotyping is unfortunate, it is quite often based on some aspect of reality.

unfortunately the values commonly held by gypsy communities are not always conducive to mutually beneficial relations with other members of society.

having had the benefit of living in both american and australia, i can tell you, the mindset over here is vastly superior to what you'll find in europe (more so eastern europe) and the middle east.

daniel,

I agree. If you look at what I said to the Dash Man, I specifically mentioned gypsies in eastern europe. It really is largely about being a big and easily identified minority.

Gotta give the gypsies credit for being up front about their values. They aren't sneaky about how they operate. Have you seen the movie Snatch with Brad Pitt as a gypsie boxer?

I didn't know you were 50% gypsie.. If we ever get together, I have to remember to keep my money in my shorts

 

[aphexcoil]

I didn't know you were 50% gypsie.. If we ever get together, I have to remember to keep my money in my shorts

You may also want to carry an extra pair of shorts -- just in case.

aphie

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by Madison


aphexcoil -

If I understand right, what you're arguing is essentially a religious war, or at least an ethnic war, of arab vs. non-arab.

In your post, you mentioned turning the middle east into sheets of glass, and killing innocent civilians, but you didn't address the fundamental question: WHY is all of this happening, from where does such a pervasive, sustained, all-encompassing hatred stem? You mention the fall of Rome, but are you saying that those 20 men attacked the US as a form of 21st century looting and pillaging of an aging and admittedly gluttonous empire?

(not challenging, just curious)

Madison, firstly, you might want to suspend your leftist leanings for the moment. That way you would be more open more likely to realise what the root cause of the arab hang up with the US is.

WHY does it happen? Hopefully you have read my discussions on the content of the Koran and pervasive role it plays in these people's lives. If you have never known many muslims, it may seem weird to you or unfair that their religion is getting so much stick. You would probably like it better if we could some way point the finger at "society" and blame IT (us) for the problems at hand (in typical leftist fashion). You would probably like it better if all problems could be neatly slotted into their boxes along with their tidy solutions.

Wake up and realise that not all problems carry such tidy and diplomatic solutions. If we wanna safe guard our way of life (and the nations that embrace it) we have to deal head on with the major ideological opposition in the world today - Islam. We wanna protect ourselves? realise that it means making short term trades offs for long term peace and stability.