What's Wrong with Canada?

[zdreg]

Quote from Kassz007:

Hence the need for diversification via trade agreements with China, India, and the EU. The only question is will this come in time?

you were doing fine until you stretched your answer. both the EU and the US are bad houses in bad neighborhoods. furthermore Canada does not need additional trade agreements to trade successfully with China and India. one of the few things that could side whack Canada would be the election of a left wing government
like in the US>

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Kassz007:

Judging by your charts, it actually proves nothing in your favor.

Lets break it down:

The Conservatives were in power from 1984-1993. So the debt went from ~ 250 to ~400 = ~$150 billion in debt added on.

The Liberals were in power from 1993-2006. So the debt was ~400 when they took power, which they then increased to ~550. Also ~ $150 billion in debt added on.

In the mid 90's, Paul Martin did a good job of beginning to reduce the debt. From what I can tell from the chart, he took it down to ~ 450.

Conclusion: Liberals are no more fiscally conservative than the Conservatives.


As to your second chart, all that shows is that both parties have been reducing corporate tax rates. The Conservaties moreso than the Liberals. Your comment about the AG's report not mattering is a strange comment because I never said that. I said the photo opp specifically at the G8/G20 is not signficant. If you want to nitpick, I can also show many instances of Liberals nickle-and-diming the Canadian taxpayer to death with wasted expenditures. This will get us nowhere. I for one am able to admit all parties in all governments waste money in one way or another.

Now on to the Chernobyl aid. Harper is giving them $30 million over 5 years. You Liberals like to spit out big dollar figures, but forget to mention these amounts are amortized over many years (i.e. fighter jet purchases).

Your math is, uh, "interesting." Adding $150 billion to $250 billion is a 60% increase. $150 billion added to $400 billion is only a 37.5% increase, which is even better considering the compounding that the 60% increase in debt caused.

Do you trade? How do you not understand compounding?

As for both parties have reduced corporate tax rates, that lies in direct contradiction to what you just posted-- that the Liberals were increasing taxes. Without blinking an eye you've just sidled away from your statement and accused me of being a Liberal (which is quite insulting.) I am what is called a fiscal conservative and can read raw data and graphs. The Conservatives are unlikely to ever be fiscally conservative.

And yes, money is still money whether amortized or not. Those are real checks that Harper is signing away every single day. It's sad that you've given up trying to read raw data in favor of the political equivalent of religious fervor.

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from mr double:

ugly...

Are you absolutely sure you know which sex you're opposite of?

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from bigdavediode:

Your math is, uh, "interesting." Adding $150 billion to $250 billion is a 60% increase. $150 billion added to $400 billion is only a 37.5% increase, which is even better considering the compounding that the 60% increase in debt caused.

Percentage terms aren't relevant in this instance. By your logic, the Conservatives could add another $150 billion to the debt and that would be better than the $150 billion added by the Liberals previously. It behooves me why you can't see that both parties have been guilty of overspending in the past. My argument is that the Conservatives are much more fiscally conservative than any other party in Canada. You can't refute this. If you really want to dig deep, we'll take the discussion back further to the 70's when the Liberals introduced their many, many social policies that raised taxes and spending both.

Do you trade? How do you not understand compounding?

I do trade, and I do understand compounding. You are really stretching your argument thin now...

As for both parties have reduced corporate tax rates, that lies in direct contradiction to what you just posted-- that the Liberals were increasing taxes. Without blinking an eye you've just sidled away from your statement and accused me of being a Liberal (which is quite insulting.) I am what is called a fiscal conservative and can read raw data and graphs. The Conservatives are unlikely to ever be fiscally conservative.

Here is where your ignorance is showing. Corporate income taxes are a very small portion of the Canadian government's tax revenue. Why don't you have a look at the raw data of what the Liberals have done to the income tax rates over the course of Canada's history? What about the 7% VAT known as GST introduced by the Liberals? This was subsequently reduced to 5% by the Conservatives. What about the HST introduced by the Ontario Liberal government?

The Liberals have a history of imposing larger taxes on Canadians. That is a fact, no matter how far in the sand you wish to bury your head.

And yes, money is still money whether amortized or not. Those are real checks that Harper is signing away every single day. It's sad that you've given up trying to read raw data in favor of the political equivalent of religious fervor.

Oh please. If you're so upset about the Canadian government buying new jets to replace the current fleet, which is nearing the end of its useful life by the way, what do you propose we equip our Air Force with? I for one am not comfortable with sending our troops into battle with second rate equipment.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Kassz007:

Percentage terms aren't relevant in this instance. By your logic, the Conservatives could add another $150 billion to the debt and that would be better than the $150 billion added by the Liberals previously. It behooves me why you can't see that both parties have been guilty of overspending in the past. My argument is that the Conservatives are much more fiscally conservative than any other party in Canada. You can't refute this. If you really want to dig deep, we'll take the discussion back further to the 70's when the Liberals introduced their many, many social policies that raised taxes and spending both.



I do trade, and I do understand compounding. You are really stretching your argument thin now...



Here is where your ignorance is showing. Corporate income taxes are a very small portion of the Canadian government's tax revenue. Why don't you have a look at the raw data of what the Liberals have done to the income tax rates over the course of Canada's history? What about the 7% VAT known as GST introduced by the Liberals? This was subsequently reduced to 5% by the Conservatives. What about the HST introduced by the Ontario Liberal government?

The Liberals have a history of imposing larger taxes on Canadians. That is a fact, no matter how far in the sand you wish to bury your head.



Oh please. If you're so upset about the Canadian government buying new jets to replace the current fleet, which is nearing the end of its useful life by the way, what do you propose we equip our Air Force with? I for one am not comfortable with sending our troops into battle with second rate equipment.

The GST was introduced by the Liberals? Huh? The GST was introduced January 1, 1991, by then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and his finance minister Michael Wilson. So-called "Conservatives."

I won't bother reading the rest of your post because it's obvious that you're on another planet.

 

[piezoe]

It's a common error to become fixated of taxes in a deficit economy. What is the point of lowering taxes and replacing the lost revenue with borrowed money? Well the point is that while this practice, so very popular with modern day "conservatives" (not fiscal conservatives, of course), may result, if applied over many years, in a shift of wealth from one segment of society to another. It also increases costs because of interest paid on borrowed money. But these costs are not necessarily distributed in the same proportion among society as a direct tax might be.

 

[MAESTRO]

Quote from mr double:

ugly,reason: a lot of kraft food in their diet plus tim hortons donut food too,they love it ,just look at line ups in timmies land

Oh, yeah? How about a very Canadian Pamela Anderson, or Shania Twain?

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from bigdavediode:

The GST was introduced by the Liberals? Huh? The GST was introduced January 1, 1991, by then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and his finance minister Michael Wilson. So-called "Conservatives."

I won't bother reading the rest of your post because it's obvious that you're on another planet.

The GST was brought in to replace the MST which was 13.5% and was brought in by the Liberal government many moons ago.

Burying your head in the sand to the rest of my post will not make the facts disappear.

 

[soldsoldsold]

Quote from mr double:

ugly,reason: a lot of kraft food in their diet plus tim hortons donut food too,they love it ,just look at line ups in timmies land

Women love to show off their beach bodies. Its too cold in Canada to do that so they have less incentive to stay fit?

 

[Max E.]

LOL, i love how flaming liberals like you try to claim you are a "fiscal" conservative, and use numbers like the 90's to try to make it out as though liberals are not the big spenders. The only time in the last 40 years we balanced a budget was due to the tech bubble, and conservatives who forced clinton to do it.

If you look at almost every single big spending program we have been saddled with in either country they are all liberal ideas. If you look at all the greedy government unions, they are all liberals, and the people who reward them are liberals.

If you look at the provinces with the most debt in canada one theme is constant every single one has been overwhelmingly run by liberals. The only province that is debt free is alberta which also happens to be the only province run only by conservatives for the past 40 years.

If you look at every state, the theme is the same, the ones with the highest taxes, and the worst debt are overwhelmingly run by liberals.

So dont give me this B.S. that you are a "fiscal conservative" and thats why you vote liberal. Its funny how liberals like you are too ashamed to admit it, and you have to make up fairy tales to justify your unpopular political beliefs.

Quote from bigdavediode:

I am what is called a fiscal conservative and can read raw data and graphs. The Conservatives are unlikely to ever be fiscally conservative.