what's the deal with collective2?

[rolextrader]

Quote from O-3:

yes would be nice to set that up so it would autotrade, I can't see how it could be done though.

Probably can't autotrade it on C2, but if you subscribe to a few lousy systems (and there's no shortage on C2), and you can fade the trades after you get the signal from e-mail or text message or whatever.

The more I think about this idea, the more I like it. In fact, given the terrible performance of most active C2 systems, this might be the Grail.

 

[rolextrader]

Quote from O-3:

So is anyone actually subscribed to any of the systems and making money??

Seems like a larger account is needed given some of the subscription prices.

I subscribed to a couple of systems that did well and the accounts were funded with $5k. I wouldn't pay more than $200/month for any system, however.

The systems with the most appeal are those with a proven track record (over a year minimum) that trade infrequently having an average profitable trade of over $200 and charge no more than $100 for a profitable trade.

 

[15rms]

I have been a system developer at C2 for a couple of years now. My current best signal is rated the 5th most popular medium term signal and is listed as one of the best signals medium term. I currently have 10 subscribers and make around 1% of the $20,000 monthly in subscriber fees that was quoted in a earlier post.

If you are interested in making money on subscriber fees at C2 you are wasting your time. C2 has been very good for me in the education and challenge it has given me.

I believe the problem with C2 is it is designed to real in new traders to get their subscriber fees and vendor fees. There is no effort by the administrator to give an honest account of what happens in real life if you trade a signal.

There is no full discloser on signals. You have margin interest, dividends paid on short holdings, and no visible account of dividends received. All of these variables combined make your real life returns much different than what is reported on C2. So the longer you trade a signal the bigger the difference is between your account and C2 reporting. Eventually you figure out you are not getting what C2 claims you can and you go away feeling burned.

The vendor gives up because of the difficulty of trading and making any money on the web site. So there is fresh meat daily on the web site and very little longevity. The cycle continues over and over. New traders dissiapointed and giving up. New hot shot signals that flair for a short time then crash and go away.

The community at C2 has a huge turnover of people few stay there because of the difficulty making money. Most get fleeced. C2 also has a big problem with its forum. It has self appointed people that seem to have their own agenda. The name calling and belittling of vendors by some that aren’t even publishing a signal is way too extreme. The one most vocal has used 4 sign in names that I know of. Also you get vendors that are false clicking on their signal to give an impression of high popularity.

In summary C2 has been good for me in the education it has given me. I would recommend to anybody publish a signal I am sure you can learn from the experience. I have a couple of subscribers that have been with me for over 2 years now. I believe they must be making money or they would not still be paying for my service. Just try and ignore the forums and your inability to get the administrator to change for the good, things that you see should be done differently. He won’t. It is clear C2 is designed to get new people in and don’t care much about keeping them.

 

[O-3]

Great post 15rms.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[fluttrader]

Quote from 15rms:

I currently have 10 subscribers and make around 1% of the $20,000 monthly in subscriber fees that was quoted in a earlier post.

you charge only around $20 ?

 

[bwolinsky]

Quote from rolextrader:



The systems with the most appeal are those with a proven track record (over a year minimum) that trade infrequently having an average profitable trade of over $200 and charge no more than $100 for a profitable trade.

Very well said, and that pairs system I have is in 4th place for systems older than a year.

 

[bwolinsky]

Quote from dtrader98:

According to the sample distribution I posted earlier, the average return for the collective systems posted was -24%/week with SR ~-.4. Not exactly on par with S&P500.

However, that being said, the samples I took were from the extremes (that we have available). And I'm still not clear if those samples are from actively traded systems or continuously monitored archived systems from the supposed population of 7000 + systems (which seems to have been debunked here; in which case, are the top +/-15 weekly lists taken from actively traded systems?).

So far the track record length seems to be max 3 yrs? It would be nice to also have them show at least a simulation of back-tested results of the high performing systems for much longer lengths of time. Otherwise, with such a wide range of variance in system performance, we have no idea how well the top 5% winners might be expected to perform OOS.

The grid will be better to use for you if you only use that data, since the grid only tracks active systems. I'd suggest you take a look and compile the data into an excel spreadsheet before you analyze the whole of collective2.

 

[bwolinsky]

Quote from 15rms:

There is no effort by the administrator to give an honest account of what happens in real life if you trade a signal.

You're dead wrong. You can't change your signals, therefore, it is honest. IB has no problem duplicating any system's results on autotrade, to the best of my knowledge, having never had anybody complain about it.

And, as I said earlier, the fills have always been at the bid and the ask at the time they were entered. I've verified this with multiple 3rd party time and sales windows.

 

[bwolinsky]

Quote from 15rms:

Also you get vendors that are false clicking on their signal to give an impression of high popularity.

[INCORRECT]

1 ip address is 1 visit. Sure you can have multiple computers, but if they're from the same location, this is 1 ip address visit from 1 person. There is no way a vendor by himself can increase the impressions. All of the visitors are different ip addresses. So when they log in again from a different ip, they get 1 more impression, but it's doubtful vendors have more than 5 possible other ip addresses.

So this is incorrect.

If you're complaining about the competition, let me say you're in the wrong business.

 

[bwolinsky]

Quote from 15rms:

It is clear C2 is designed to get new people in and don’t care much about keeping them.

Your bigger problem is a lack of taste for competition. Some subscribers have contacted me on cell, and I can tell you that they're loaded, but use small chump change just to see how it goes for a few months.