What's the cheapest R/T for Micro ES and NQ

[traderjo]

Thanks Robert,

Does the ES Micros move (liquidity, price movements, etc) the same as ES?

- Liquidity could be diff.. diff players!
- Price w.r.t ES? , has to be close otherwise the "wise" people will arb it with ES with a autospreader won;t they? (same way 1SPx 5ES spread) but then if MES buy / sell pressures are different how would that match with ES? confusing

In same vain what I never understood is how ES or SP futures contract price is derived after spx index (500 US stocks) stop trading in US lit exchanges?

 

[Pkay]

My guess is that there is customer flow but MM are going to use the ES value as a reference. They will move together give or take 1 or 2 ticks on the Micro. I do not watch them. None of my clients want them.

None at all?

 

[Pkay]

The smaller contract is not good for scalping. Make no sense. OK for investing or swing trades.

This was my feeling too. The commission rates make scalping difficult.

 

[Robert Morse]

None at all?

I’m not following your question.

Micro ES is priced off the ES
ES is priced off the big SP
Big SP is priced off the basket of stocks in the 500.

As the ES has the best price Discovery, everybody can see bids/offers, most people just watch that unless they have a process for watching the basket.

 

[Pkay]

I’m not following your question.

Micro ES is priced off the ES
ES is priced off the big SP
Big SP is priced off the basket of stocks in the 500.

As the ES has the best price Discovery, everybody can see bids/offers, most people just watch that unless they have a process for watching the basket.

Thanks Robert, I was just surprised that none of your clients were interested in the micros.

However, as has been mentioned before, the micros were probably pitched at people like me who are new to futures and want to learn without losing or shirts.

 

[Robert Morse]

We had one request from a current account. Maybe because our min account size for CQG is $10k and Realtick is $25k, it does not attract customers interested in the micros which is targeting more accounts under $5000.

I do think for a swing trade, they are better than SPY.

 

[Pkay]

We had one request from a current account. Maybe because our min account size for CQG is $10k and Realtick is $25k, it does not attract customers interested in the micros which is targeting more accounts under $5000.

I do think for a swing trade, they are better than SPY.

Thanks Robert, I did suspect that minimum account size had something to do with it.

I'm definitely looking at starting with no more than $5000 and am not interested in day trading as I live in the UK and have a full time job too. In your view:

1. If I stay with 1 MES contract to start with is the risk of ending up losing my account and also owing the broker money minimal (assuming I use sensible risk managment)?

2. Are the micros a good vehicle to learn how to swing trade index futures?

3. If one is looking to swing trade are futures an appropriate vehicle? Maybe ETFs might be better?

Thanks!

 

[Robert Morse]

I’m not familiar with tax laws in your country. In the United States there is an advantage to trading futures over ETFs. There is also higher leverage than Reg-t margin and no PDT rule. You just have to roll from time to time which is not hard and can be done with a spread.

Is less you hope to hold the ETF for years here, then the etf might be better than future’s in the US as futures are marked to market at the end of the year while the ETF you would not pay taxes on until you close the position. UK might be different.

 

[bone]

Hi guys and ladies,

I've become addicted to the Micro ES and NQ. It happened fast. I'm doing 50 to 150 R/T's per day. I'm a former floor trader, and was on the CBOT and CBOE for almost 30 years. My style back then was to always have a core positional trade on while constantly scalping the paper that came into the pits I was in. I spent a great many years in the OEX pit on the CBOE, which was a scalpers paradise on many, if not most days. One could move 1000 puts or calls with no more than 3 contra names on a ticket. Man, the markets were deep in that pit.

I recently came out of retirement because the action in the markets was too hard to ignore. That said, while I love trading mini's, the algo spikes and sweeps are tough to swallow for an old guy. When the Micros arrived, it was like a dream come true for me. I can make a ton of trades (small size) and never risk too much. Of course, the $ rewards are much smaller as well. That said, these Micros are working for me. At my age, taking on big risk makes no sense. I also choose scalping versus positional trading so that I can have plenty of free time for outside activities.

My question is, what's the lowest round turn rate you've seen for the Micro ES & NQ?
I thought I was paying 84 cents a round turn, according to my statements, but my broker informed me today that this was a mistake, and my actual rate will be 1.14 per R/T.

I get it, they have to make a living too, no problem there. However, with the number of trades I make on busy days, over the course of time it adds up, fast. Unlike the floor, where my clearing firm always capped fees after I reached a certain volume threshold, the e-brokers don't. I see AMP offering 74-78 cents per R/T, can anyone beat that?

Please feel free to PM me if you don't want to share details on the forum. My lips are sealed, for real. For the record, I really enjoy working with my current broker. He's a good dude, and the company is transparent, with great customer service. The commission kerfuffle came to light after I called him today and inquired why my statements were showing a lower rate than I recall him quoting me over the phone. I guess his firm was not hands on when it came to checking statements for commission accuracy? So I make the call, and for my honesty, I get rewarded with a 30 cent per R/T higher rate. LOL Like I said, he's a good dude and I love the firm, but I don't like to over pay by a large percentage.

Thanks for any response in advance. Good trading to all.

Jack

PS I don't post often, but I really enjoy this forum a ton. There are a lot of really sharp people here. I tried a few other forums, uhhh nope, they aren't even close to ET.

Jack, I started out scalping T-Bonds and was one of the first to use Project-A and overnight Globex. Was also one of the early ones trading DTB Bunds in Chicago. Been electronic ever since.

You need to be mindful about execution latency if you're scalping on the screen. If you are using a discount broker, just be aware that you are probably adding an additional order routing loop as compared to you clearing a direct FCM (like Advantage, RJ O'Brien, Rosenthal Collins, etc.).

The other thing (that you have apparently discovered) is that it is quite easy to over trade on the screen. And as you full well know with the Micro tic size it is the brokers who make the money.

I don't scalp anymore - I'm a spread trader. But I wouldn't be surprised to see you lease a seat and move on to ES and NQ, where you get to keep some of your trading income.

I wish you good fortune!

 

[Rickshaw Man]

Hi guys and ladies,

I've become addicted to the Micro ES and NQ. It happened fast. I'm doing 50 to 150 R/T's per day. I'm a former floor trader, and was on the CBOT and CBOE for almost 30 years. My style back then was to always have a core positional trade on while constantly scalping the paper that came into the pits I was in. I spent a great many years in the OEX pit on the CBOE, which was a scalpers paradise on many, if not most days. One could move 1000 puts or calls with no more than 3 contra names on a ticket. Man, the markets were deep in that pit.

I recently came out of retirement because the action in the markets was too hard to ignore. That said, while I love trading mini's, the algo spikes and sweeps are tough to swallow for an old guy. When the Micros arrived, it was like a dream come true for me. I can make a ton of trades (small size) and never risk too much. Of course, the $ rewards are much smaller as well. That said, these Micros are working for me. At my age, taking on big risk makes no sense. I also choose scalping versus positional trading so that I can have plenty of free time for outside activities.

My question is, what's the lowest round turn rate you've seen for the Micro ES & NQ?
I thought I was paying 84 cents a round turn, according to my statements, but my broker informed me today that this was a mistake, and my actual rate will be 1.14 per R/T.

I get it, they have to make a living too, no problem there. However, with the number of trades I make on busy days, over the course of time it adds up, fast. Unlike the floor, where my clearing firm always capped fees after I reached a certain volume threshold, the e-brokers don't. I see AMP offering 74-78 cents per R/T, can anyone beat that?

Please feel free to PM me if you don't want to share details on the forum. My lips are sealed, for real. For the record, I really enjoy working with my current broker. He's a good dude, and the company is transparent, with great customer service. The commission kerfuffle came to light after I called him today and inquired why my statements were showing a lower rate than I recall him quoting me over the phone. I guess his firm was not hands on when it came to checking statements for commission accuracy? So I make the call, and for my honesty, I get rewarded with a 30 cent per R/T higher rate. LOL Like I said, he's a good dude and I love the firm, but I don't like to over pay by a large percentage.

Thanks for any response in advance. Good trading to all.

Jack

PS I don't post often, but I really enjoy this forum a ton. There are a lot of really sharp people here. I tried a few other forums, uhhh nope, they aren't even close to ET.

Interactive Brokers is .47 per side all in.