What's the best UNIX / Linux for laptop?

Quote from bali_survivor:

Ninja

thank you, this looks promising. Have already downloaded OpenSolaris but it won't connect the network on my test machine (Z61m), have not yet had the time to check out why.
But I did see that many T61 / T61p machines were fully functional.

I actually did at one stage work with Sun Solaris on a Sun machine so I do like the idea of trying this out. And with Virtual Box also coming from the same stable it may well be a nice solution (trying at this moment to avoid spending sizeable amounts) I'll will try the live CD out on the T61p later today after trading and see what happens then.

Random.Capital - I'll keep a MAC solution in mind, certainly VMware Fusion looks a way to the future and it looks even better than using a virtual machine. However at this moment I am investigation for alternatives on my T61p which is only two months old.

Maria
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Hmm, not sure you're entirely clear on what VMWare is. Fusion is VMWare's desktop for the Mac.

That said, apologies in advance if you already understand that to use it, in the case to run TradeStation, you're going to need a non-OEM copy of XP so you can create an XP desktop to install and run TradeStation in.

I've been running their various releases of the desktop since 2.0 on Windows and Linux. While it's the best virtualization solution out there you should realize that it's not going to give you anything close to bare metal performance when it comes to hardware I/O.

If the T61p was your only machine then you'd not have much choice but, since you also have a Z61m (I have one as well), I'd recommend that you dedicate it to TradeStation.

With XP SP3 and as little extraneous software as possible it's a stable platform that should keep you going long enough to see if Windows 7 proves to be a viable alternative to Vista.

The T61p is a really nice machine, and I agree, it's probably the last of the line when it comes to Thinkpads now that Lenovo owns them.

On the alternative desktop front it comes down to what you're looking to do (aside from VMWare for TradeStation).

I'd recommend against OpenSolaris unless you have very specific reasons that require it. When it comes to mainstream Linux the most popular are Ubuntu, OpenSuSE and Fedora. Each play to a different crowd and they also have fairly short update cycles, so if stability is important at the expense of version lag and some loss in hardware functionality then you should look at CentOS or Debian.
 
Quote from jprad:

Hmm, not sure you're entirely clear on what VMWare is. Fusion is VMWare's desktop for the Mac.

That said, apologies in advance if you already understand that to use it, in the case to run TradeStation, you're going to need a non-OEM copy of XP so you can create an XP desktop to install and run TradeStation in.

I've been running their various releases of the desktop since 2.0 on Windows and Linux. While it's the best virtualization solution out there you should realize that it's not going to give you anything close to bare metal performance when it comes to hardware I/O.

If the T61p was your only machine then you'd not have much choice but, since you also have a Z61m (I have one as well), I'd recommend that you dedicate it to TradeStation.

With XP SP3 and as little extraneous software as possible it's a stable platform that should keep you going long enough to see if Windows 7 proves to be a viable alternative to Vista.

The T61p is a really nice machine, and I agree, it's probably the last of the line when it comes to Thinkpads now that Lenovo owns them.

On the alternative desktop front it comes down to what you're looking to do (aside from VMWare for TradeStation).

I'd recommend against OpenSolaris unless you have very specific reasons that require it. When it comes to mainstream Linux the most popular are Ubuntu, OpenSuSE and Fedora. Each play to a different crowd and they also have fairly short update cycles, so if stability is important at the expense of version lag and some loss in hardware functionality then you should look at CentOS or Debian.
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Have been involved with VMware since version 4.xx and recently learned about VMware's Fusion for MAC.

I do have a genuine business license for XP SP1 due to work I was involved in. (no activation required, :D ) and similarly I do have an office 2000 SP1 business license. I am hanging on to those two with all my might and am not giving them out either.
Have made a few copies that I am keeping off-site just in case something untowards happens to the house.

I am familiar with Solaris and Virtual Box is a 500 M$ prject by Sun. Sun had originally WABI which got canned through Microsoft actions. So Sun knows pretty well how to make WIndows work under UNIX.

I do like tight intergation between OS and virtualisation software and like the fact that Solaris and Virtual Box come from the same stable. However I have been reading up on OpenSolaris and notice that not much news is out since the middle of the year and I do wonder if it is slowly grinding to a halt.

Ubuntu in all its flavours starts to feel more and more like the "Vista of the Linux's" and I have started to dislike it. Did not find it that easy under the hood either.

Have had a few peeks at the OpenSuse website and the distro is rather large but it seems to be a rather active group. May see if I can get my hands on it, my download speeed here is not sufficient to download that size within a reasonable timeframe.

Many thanks for your feedback, it is appreciated.
Maria
 
Quote from bali_survivor:

Have been involved with VMware since version 4.xx and recently learned about VMware's Fusion for MAC.
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Again, apologies. Your earlier comment regarding Fusion led me to think otherwise.

However I have been reading up on OpenSolaris and notice that not much news is out since the middle of the year and I do wonder if it is slowly grinding to a halt.
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Good point, which is equally applicable to VirtualBox. The lack of a comprehensive performance comparison between VB and VMWare says a lot that's not good for VB's prospects in the enterprise.

Have had a few peeks at the OpenSuse website and the distro is rather large but it seems to be a rather active group. May see if I can get my hands on it, my download speeed here is not sufficient to download that size within a reasonable timeframe.
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If bandwidth is a constraint there's always osdisc.com for cheap discs.
 
Quote from jprad:

Again, apologies. Your earlier comment regarding Fusion led me to think otherwise.



Good point, which is equally applicable to VirtualBox. The lack of a comprehensive performance comparison between VB and VMWare says a lot that's not good for VB's prospects in the enterprise.



If bandwidth is a constraint there's always osdisc.com for cheap discs.
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jprad

Once again many thanks, you certainly bring up an important issue with Virtual Box.

It looks that history repeats itself: a good product going down the tube because bad marketing. (same as dad telling me how OS/2 was initially a very nice product and Gates pulling a fast one on IBM. Then the sheeple jumping on the Windows NT bandwago which had a performance that just was pathetic. And eventually OS/2 falling by the wayside because all the firms started to develop for Windows NT and not for OS/2.)

In this case it looks that Suse / OpenSuse with VMware is a more worthwile investment of my time (learning the environment etc) .

Better start checking the hardware compatibility list for Suse, have seen my T61p is on the OpenSolaris list.

Maria
 
Quote from bali_survivor:

It looks that history repeats itself: a good product going down the tube because bad marketing.
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I wouldn't sell VMWare short. Their VMWare server was previously the commercial GSX server that they decided to release for free after Microsoft entered the virtualization market with Virtual PC.

They later made it dual CPU capable as it and the open source competition made incremental performance gains.

Nothing comes close to their ESX product though, tremendous piece of work.

(same as dad telling me how OS/2 was initially a very nice product and Gates pulling a fast one on IBM. Then the sheeple jumping on the Windows NT bandwago which had a performance that just was pathetic. And eventually OS/2 falling by the wayside because all the firms started to develop for Windows NT and not for OS/2.)
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I really miss OS/2. Their OS, especially the desktop object metaphore in Warp, was really ahead of it's time. BeOS was looking to be the next generation, but that ended up going nowhere. Same with AmigaOS.

Amazing how IBM has had a hand in each of the three major events that have created this god-awful Microsoft monoculture...

1) Not having the patience to wait for Gary Kildal to land.

2) Going with the 8086 instead of the 6800.

3) Dropping OS/2.

In this case it looks that Suse / OpenSuse with VMware is a more worthwile investment of my time (learning the environment etc).
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The T61p should be almost completely functional, certainly the audio, video, network and wireless will be. Some of the more esoteric items will be problematic though.

Best of luck.
 
jprad,

thanks for the reply. I was not selling VMware short, have a high opinion. It was referring to Virtual Box: it looks a very nice and stable product but not having the right promotion / marketing may kill it eventually. Certainly looks like OpenSolaris is heading that direction.

I did find a comparison between VMware Fusion and Virtual Box and according to the author they cater for two different markets.

http://lowendmac.com/ed/kitchens/08kk/virtualbox-vs-fusion.html

Regards M
 
Ofcourse if one wanted to be a real geek then you can put Ubuntu on and confuse the shit out of everyone by using Mac4Lin ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/mac4lin/ ) add Virtual Box and then load up something like Windows 2000 (TradeStation 2000i does not need anything more than that ).

Virtual Box can run without any menu bars so it will look like a real windows environment. Then if someone goes under the hood they'll think it is a Mac environment and get confused because how is that supposed to run on a windows machine?

Until they discover it is Ubuntu.

The above would be an absolute waste of time - if only Micro$hit was not forcing upgrades down our throat and moving towards a subscription based environment. However if one sees the efforts going into Linux and progress made during the last few years then the writing is clearly on the all for windows.

M
 
I have been using many types of Linux and Unix for years at home and in a cooperate environment with hundreds of machines. Ubuntu wins hands down. The latest version 8.10 is great and the best so far. Version 8.10 has much better support for multiple monitors.

VirtualBox is easy to install and run in Ubuntu. I used to use VmWare but changed to VirtualBox because it is easier to use and more reliable on Ubuntu. I run Windows XP and Windows 2000 under Virtualbox. I have ran tests and Windows XP under VirtualBox runs within 2% of the speed it runs natively.

The down side is that there is some learning involved to get up to speed in Ubuntu but much less than in the past. Every release gets better. The BIG UPSIDE is that Ubuntu is maintenance free and indestructible compared to Windows once you have learned your way around and can install it. Ubuntu does not have spyware or viruses. Ubuntu is secure. It does not slow down and die over time like Windows does. It will run for months without needing to be rebooted. After you have it running it stays running unless your computer breaks so in the long term it saves a lot of time. The install takes about 30 minutes or less from a single CD. It is totally free. I can access my banking and trading and not have to worry if some web site that I went to last month had installed malicious spy-ware on my computer. Piece of mind is a nice thing. I can install it on as many machines as I want and I don't have to worry about being a software pirate or about a stupid activation code.

Also Ubuntu has about 13,000 software applications available in the "repository" that you can install with the "add/remove" program, all for free. There is an extensive help system built in.

If you are a computer person then learning to install and set up Ubuntu should be easy for you. If you are not a computer person and are short on time it may be worth hiring someone to install it for you. After it is installed and set up it is easy for anyone to use. My parents are 80 and 84 years old and they had a laptop with windows that was always getting infected with spyware. I had them send it to me about 3 years ago and I installed Ubuntu and sent it back to them. It has been running fine for 3 years with no problems. They use Firefox and open office just like they did in Windows but Ubuntu does not break. That is the best thing. They will be able to use it on the internet until the machine breaks but Ubuntu wont break or get screwed up. They do their banking on that machine and I dont worry. Would you give your 84 year old parents a windows machine on the Internet and have them do on-line banking?
 
Cliff5200-thanks for the Ubuntu review.After years of frustration with XP (my kids get spyware on it from kids gaming sites) I am ready for something different.:)
 
Cliff5200 thanks for registering and making your first post a reply to this question of mine.

Lots of usefull information there, last version of Ubuntu was 6.? so it may well have progressed lots from there.

Downloaded OpenSolaris but am having some issues with it on the Thinkpad Z61m that is my older machine, have not yet tried the T61p with it. But I know that the old Ubuntu (pre 6) ran fine on my Thinkpad A31 and later on the Z61m.

OpenSuse is another contender which seems to have a large following. I know SLED 10.3 is running fine on this machine but costs money.

I have one question though: the early versions of XP had a different firewall and did not nag you when you turned off the automatic updates. Even in SP2 when you switch the automatic updates to "manual" it will every now and then (once a month?) check if there are updates and start the automatic updates.

I am considering just loading the original release of XP under VMware / Virtual Box (new for me) and applying service pack 1a and then turn the automatic updates off and never apply any updates (and don't be nagged by WGA either). What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Maria
 
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