what's good friday?
- Thread starter FRuiTY PeBBLe
- Start date
Even Jesus is quoted as having said "give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's", making the distinction between church and state 1,700 years before the United States Constitution.
Just some quick thoughts -
"In God We Trust" was first placed on coins 140 years (in 1864) - not 50 years ago.
The inclusion of "one nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance I believe did happen about 50 or so years ago though.
That was about the time there was an official law passed by Congress and signed in 1956 that declared that "In God We Trust" was the national motto of the United States - which effectively means that the use of that motto on anything does NOT violate church/state separation since the law that established the national motto has already been upheld by the Supreme Court (the final arbitors of what is or isn't constitutional).
Also, as it relates to church/state separation, the wording in the first amendment is "...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...".
Its intent was NOT to make government non-religious. Rather it was intended to prevent the institutionalizing of a national religion as there had been in England (and the resulting oppression of other religions/factions). More properly, since the founders were all Christians, they intended to prevent any one Christian faction from becoming the national religion (as the Church of England had) and thus dominating all other Christian factions.
It's doubtful that the idea of an agnostic/non-religious government ever entered the framer's minds since the country was founded on some basic religious concepts (e.g., "that all men were created and they are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights").
smacks of double speak to me, an attempt to rationalize and legitimize the incorporation of Christianity into gov. "In God We Trust" in effect has installed Christianity (what GOD do you think they are referring to here) as the national religion. I say GET RID OF IT!! Substitute something like "In Reason We Trust" ... that is much much better.
In God We Trust was first used on some coinage in 1864, but was not officially adopted to be put on all our money until the 1950s.
The variant forms of Christianity that the founders practiced might have been a bit wider than we expect these days. Agnostic, Quaker, Freemason, etc. It's worth noting that they did use the words "by their Creator" rather than "by God".
There's differences of opinion about whether there is a God. But we can all acknowledge that something created us, even if it's only evolution or even random mutation. Whatever created us, therefore, endowed us with the rights to life, freedom, and the ability to seek happiness. I'll buy that.
How about "Life, Liberty, Happiness" as the standard motto. Actually, before "In God We Trust", the most common motto on coins was the word "Liberty".
Or, "In Creator We Suppose".
The variant forms of Christianity that the founders practiced might have been a bit wider than we expect these days. Agnostic, Quaker, Freemason, etc. It's worth noting that they did use the words "by their Creator" rather than "by God".
There's differences of opinion about whether there is a God. But we can all acknowledge that something created us, even if it's only evolution or even random mutation. Whatever created us, therefore, endowed us with the rights to life, freedom, and the ability to seek happiness. I'll buy that.
How about "Life, Liberty, Happiness" as the standard motto. Actually, before "In God We Trust", the most common motto on coins was the word "Liberty".
Or, "In Creator We Suppose".
Yes, get rid of it. I say, "E pluribus unum" is fine. "Out of many, one" sounds good to me. Although, why do we need something so cryptic...maybe there's something better. Maybe just, "Of many, one" in plain English.
FRuiTY
The worst thing about all this "in god we trust" crap is, why is anything controversial needed on money?! it's freaking money! put the value on it and leave it at that. why take such a "asking for trouble" leap forward and put your religious beliefs on it?!?! it makes no sense to me at all! get that sh!t off!!!!
F. P.
F. P.
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as "reason" in Washington
Would have to be more like "In a pack of thieving rat bastards who only care about lining their pockets with the public's money for as long as they can keep getting reelected - we don't trust them, but whoa be unto us - the poor stupid fools who keep electing them"
Too much to put on currency and coins though - maybe just "Washington Sucks" and leave it at that