Whats going on with all these people ready to give up their rights?

[Tsing Tao]

Let's assume it is 1/3 who truly need to go to the hospital.

At any given moment a hospital has a certain amount of patients to treat. Now all of a sudden another 3,000 patients are showing up needing beds and respirators and medical staff are going through PPE at 10x teh rate and running out and staff are going home sick and having to stay home.

NYC and Louisiana hospitals are at over capacity and other areas are going to approach this very soon. For every 50 people that decide social distancing does not apply to them, you could have 50 new cases that require hospitalization when you factor in the contagion rate of those 50 people and the contact they will have over the next 10 days.

Simple math:

NYC has about 20,000 existing hospital beds. TOTAL for all medical needs, not just Corona.

NYC has 36,000 cases.

Assume 1/3 needs a bed.

That is 12,000 people in hospital due to Corona.

That means 60% of existing hospital beds occupied by just Corona alone and not taking into account regular sick people in the hospital.

This number is growing everyday and NYC is out of beds already.

The estimate is they will need 20,000 to 30,000 more beds. 2x what they have existing.

And these numbers assume people stay the fuck home now.

I can't agree with your numbers. I can't just assume 1/3rd has to go to the hospital, or your calc on the total cases, as many aren't tested and the denominator is much higher. .

 

[Tsing Tao]

Constitutional rights are not being broken.

If you are saying your rights are being violated because the government said you cannot gather in groups of 10 or more or have to stay home, well that is 100% legal under the Constitution.

Remember, you cannot yell FIRE in a crowded movie theater because the public safety overrides your individual right to free speech.

Public health crisis overrides your right to get together with 50 of your friends on your front lawn and have a party.

Pretty simple and supported by 100 years of Constitutional Law.

I'm not saying my rights are being violated. I'm saying you can't violate those rights.

 

[Tsing Tao]

So that I understand this,

I am not any more susceptible to the virus than you are. But I try to learn lessons from nations who have dealt with this way earlier than the US, who have practiced isolating with success and encouraged everyone outside near others to wear masks. There is one and only one reason why this virus spread like a bush fire in Europe and the US: Irresponsible people who thought they know it better than virologists and professionals and still partied and mingled as if nothing happened.

And no, you can go out as much as you like, just don't get close to others without wearing a mask because you might be a carrier without knowing it and infect others. And that would fly right into your face of the liberties, economical livelihood, and business or career you hold in such high esteem. Surely you hold those of others in the same high esteem, correct?

Every nation that deals with this has done something differently. You can't just say "this nation did a national lockdown, that's why they were so successful". Nor can you say that the one and only reason the virus spread was because irresponsible people went out and partied. There are many states not under a lockdown in the US right now. They don't seem to have brush fires. They don't seem to have medical facilities as "war zones".

There's a complex model that has to be done here. It's not just saying "everyone needs to stay home", the economy be damned.

 

[Tsing Tao]

can't possibly agree more with this. It is bewildering why anyone still questions this common sense.

Right, because anyone not immediately seeing your point must be dumb and idiotic. You are the authority on accuracy of all things. How incredibly wonderful it must be.

 

[Tsing Tao]

How is this an invalid argument. You have the constitutional right to bear a firearm as long as you do not infringe with it on someone else's freedom. You have the constitutional right of free speech as long as you do not infringe on someone else's freedom. If you put others in harm's way then that is where your freedom ends. Last time I checked you had no constitutional right to assemble in large masses when those masses pose a danger to themselves or others. Or do you also sue your movie theater because they have a safety capacity of 500 people and you are the 501st who was turned down?

I am not putting others in harm's way by going outside if those others are self-isolating.

A movie theater is a private business. If it closes, I have no right to sue it.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

I think the Russian troll farm is hard at work here.

 

[Hotcakes]

I think the Russian troll farm is hard at work here.

And you call us tinfoil hatters....

 

[Tsing Tao]

Sure, even if this was remotely true (which it is proven it is not) are you willing to risk 1/6-1/10 of the population to be at extremely high risk of death?

Nearly 54 Million Americans Have Pre-Existing Conditions That Would Make Them Uninsurable in the Individual Market without the ACA
(https://www.kff.org/health-reform/p...ble-in-the-individual-market-without-the-aca/)

Not all pre-existing issues make you more susceptible to the Coronavirus. But in your numbers, you are counting all these.

Cardiovascular diseases affect nearly half of American adults, statistics show
(https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/...early-half-of-american-adults-statistics-show)

There are a broad range of aspects of cardiovascular disease grouped in that. Of these, not all make you more susceptible to Covid-19.

Nearly 37 million Americans live with a chronic lung disease like asthma and COPD, which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Through education and support programs for those living with a lung disease, their caregivers and those that love them, the American Lung Association is continually working to reduce the burden of living with a lung disease.
(https://www.lung.org/about-us/mission-impact-and-history/our-impact)

These Americans would be at higher risk and should self-isolate (though COPD has many variations). I would recommend the same measures during ANY outbreak of any flu or cold virus that attacks the respiratory system.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I apologize, it is hard to answer all the replies. I am working - at work - as our business is considered essential. I am not at home with my fingers up my ...well, you know.

 

[Hotcakes]

Your problems and fears shouldn't be someone elses problems. I can use your argument for anything.

You shouldn't be allowed to drive because it puts me at risk from being run over by you.
You shouldn't be allowed to sell me soda and hamburgers because it puts me at risk for obesity.
You shouldn't be allowed to smoke because it puts me at risk for lung cancer.
.

This = Genius.