Whats going on with all these people ready to give up their rights?

[El OchoCinco]

I'm challenging the whole "half of the cases have to go to the hospital to put more strain on the resources" theory. The whole deal, mate.

Let's assume it is 1/3 who truly need to go to the hospital.

At any given moment a hospital has a certain amount of patients to treat. Now all of a sudden another 3,000 patients are showing up needing beds and respirators and medical staff are going through PPE at 10x teh rate and running out and staff are going home sick and having to stay home.

NYC and Louisiana hospitals are at over capacity and other areas are going to approach this very soon. For every 50 people that decide social distancing does not apply to them, you could have 50 new cases that require hospitalization when you factor in the contagion rate of those 50 people and the contact they will have over the next 10 days.

Simple math:

NYC has about 20,000 existing hospital beds. TOTAL for all medical needs, not just Corona.

NYC has 36,000 cases.

Assume 1/3 needs a bed.

That is 12,000 people in hospital due to Corona.

That means 60% of existing hospital beds occupied by just Corona alone and not taking into account regular sick people in the hospital.

This number is growing everyday and NYC is out of beds already.

The estimate is they will need 20,000 to 30,000 more beds. 2x what they have existing.

And these numbers assume people stay the fuck home now.

 

[El OchoCinco]

I'm challenging the whole "half of the cases have to go to the hospital to put more strain on the resources" theory. The whole deal, mate.

But the argument with the other guy is not about resources. Its about Constitutional right, and he (or she) is saying the Constitutional Right can be broken because of harm to the individual at risk. This is an invalid argument.

If you want to argue the medical system resources, that's a different argument.

Constitutional rights are not being broken.

If you are saying your rights are being violated because the government said you cannot gather in groups of 10 or more or have to stay home, well that is 100% legal under the Constitution.

Remember, you cannot yell FIRE in a crowded movie theater because the public safety overrides your individual right to free speech.

Public health crisis overrides your right to get together with 50 of your friends on your front lawn and have a party.

Pretty simple and supported by 100 years of Constitutional Law.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

El OchoCinco, your arguments are spot on. But why waste your time debating doorknobs?

 

[FrankInLa]

So that I understand this,

I am not any more susceptible to the virus than you are. But I try to learn lessons from nations who have dealt with this way earlier than the US, who have practiced isolating with success and encouraged everyone outside near others to wear masks. There is one and only one reason why this virus spread like a bush fire in Europe and the US: Irresponsible people who thought they know it better than virologists and professionals and still partied and mingled as if nothing happened.

And no, you can go out as much as you like, just don't get close to others without wearing a mask because you might be a carrier without knowing it and infect others. And that would fly right into your face of the liberties, economical livelihood, and business or career you hold in such high esteem. Surely you hold those of others in the same high esteem, correct?

Just so I understand this.

Because you are more susceptible to the virus, either through your age or your own health issues, I should have to quarantine myself and sacrifice my liberty, economical livelihood and potentially my business or career by locking myself away, even though you are going to lock yourself away anyway?

This seems totally and completely ridiculous.

Cancer patients are immuno-compromised because of their treatment. They keep themselves protected while undergoing chemo and radiation for precisely this reason. Yet the rest of us don't lock ourselves away because of their illness. They take those actions.

 

[FrankInLa]

can't possibly agree more with this. It is bewildering why anyone still questions this common sense.

I stay home and 40 of you decide not to, you spread it around and then those 40 could then have their own meet ups with other people and this little gathering ends up creating 100-300 new cases which maybe half of them have to go to the hospital and put even more strain on the resources at their maximum capacity.

So while you brag that if you stay home you are safe, the idiots that go outside in large groups keep pushing the virus around and our hospitals stay overloaded. Now instead of me staying home for 4 - 6 weeks I got to stay home 3- 4 months because selfish people don't give a shit.

I really do not understand why adults keep needing this to be explained to them.

I am staying at home so I am not worried about me, but my friends and family members who work at hospitals who keep begging you clueless people to stay home so they don't have 30 new cases coming in every day and running out of beds and supplies.

The U.S. is different than Korea and Japan and Malaysia where the spread is under control because we are filled with arrogant asses who flaunt the rules (Spring Breakers on beaches, people by the hundreds in the National Mall, Idiots in Brooklyn gathering in groups of 50 to 100 to watch the Naval Hospital ship arrive, several weddings that went on...).

 

[El OchoCinco]

I just cannot believe people are so naive about this situation.

I AGREE the lockdowns are excessive and the effect on the economy is going to be severe and we did not do this for H1N1 or SARS, and I hate that we will emerge with a lot of closed restaurants and small businesses but like the old cliche.... "this time its different"

Put away all the politicians and every single medical authority is in agreement that this has to be done so we have to do it and just because in buttfuck Arkansas there are 12 cases in the whole state or the NYC is a Blue state and they have the most cases that we ignore medical advice.

 

[FrankInLa]

How is this an invalid argument. You have the constitutional right to bear a firearm as long as you do not infringe with it on someone else's freedom. You have the constitutional right of free speech as long as you do not infringe on someone else's freedom. If you put others in harm's way then that is where your freedom ends. Last time I checked you had no constitutional right to assemble in large masses when those masses pose a danger to themselves or others. Or do you also sue your movie theater because they have a safety capacity of 500 people and you are the 501st who was turned down?

I'm challenging the whole "half of the cases have to go to the hospital to put more strain on the resources" theory. The whole deal, mate.

But the argument with the other guy is not about resources. Its about Constitutional right, and he (or she) is saying the Constitutional Right can be broken because of harm to the individual at risk. This is an invalid argument.

If you want to argue the medical system resources, that's a different argument.

 

[Hotcakes]

Last I checked, there is a Constitution in the United States, and there is a Bill of Rights. The government has stepped in and denied some of these rights. How is it, these rights can be taken away?

Rights are not rights, if they can be taken away.

Nail on the head. We're not under Martial Law.

This isn't so much an old persons disease, but a sick persons disease. Healthy people - of all ages - walk away from WuFlu. Sick people - of all ages - are the vast majority of deaths from WuFlu. That's according to NYC numbers.
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[FrankInLa]

I am not speculating on individuals on this website, but what amazes me is the brazen hypocrisy of some of the public hard-core conservative pundits or billionaires who try to convince the rest that the economic damage and infringement on individuals' rights is much higher a cost to bear than the damage of a full-fledged infection wave across the country. Those same people happily tweet away from their basements, bunkers, or hundred million dollar yachts in the Caribbean.

I just cannot believe people are so naive about this situation.

I AGREE the lockdowns are excessive and the effect on the economy is going to be severe and we did not do this for H1N1 or SARS, and I hate that we will emerge with a lot of closed restaurants and small businesses but like the old cliche.... "this time its different"

Put away all the politicians and every single medical authority is in agreement that this has to be done so we have to do it and just because in buttfuck Arkansas there are 12 cases in the whole state or the NYC is a Blue state and they have the most cases that we ignore medical advice.

 

[Hotcakes]

How does it protect you from getting infected? If you stay home, you can't get infected, right?

Doesn't matter if others do.

This. This is all it takes. The sick, infirm, elderly, and those with serious health issues = they can choose to self isolate. Let the rest of us go back to work and live our lives. Thanks. The NYC numbers show this to be overwhelming true. This virus kills those with serious underlying health issues (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, immuno-compromised). The healthy, it barely kills at all.