What´s wrong with WTS?

[hitnrun]

Don

that fact is traders in canada & here in the usa
are paying 20-30 cents per 1k shares with a 80 % payout

that is nothing new & it has been going on for years
surprised you don't know or realize this by now

sounds like you been over paying goldman all these years Lol.

Let us know what you find out if you can get through to nyc ?

 

[semaj68651]

20cent to 30cent per 1000 wts does restrict you to stocks like siri,cim,bac etc. I think they only allow six symbols.

 

[ronin266]

Quote from hitnrun:

Don

that fact is traders in canada & here in the usa
are paying 20-30 cents per 1k shares with a 80 % payout

that is nothing new & it has been going on for years
surprised you don't know or realize this by now

sounds like you been over paying goldman all these years Lol.

Let us know what you find out if you can get through to nyc ?

LoL doubt he didn´t knew it. But the fact that he changed his posts here from neutral-negative to agressive-positive may give some hints about some call/pm from "someone" interested .

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from hitnrun:

Don

that fact is traders in canada & here in the usa
are paying 20-30 cents per 1k shares with a 80 % payout

that is nothing new & it has been going on for years
surprised you don't know or realize this by now

sounds like you been over paying goldman all these years Lol.

Let us know what you find out if you can get through to nyc ?

Had a long talk with Brian Schaefer, nice guy CEO of WTS Prop.

And, yes, I understand the Swift model - for single symbols unlimited size, paying a ticket charge, which is what WTS does for their foreign traders. Nothing wrong with that, trading BAC 10,000 shares at a pop on each side to collect rebates.

As for normal trading, with multiple symbols, pricing is very similar for US trading firms.

I'm expecting Mr. Schaefer to come to Vegas to demo some of this technology, I'm buying dinner.

As I said, all good now as far as I'm concerned.

Don

 

[Quarry]

There is nothing wrong with WTS. They pay on time, give access to markets/liquidity, have trading offices, etc.

However, trading is a tough business and most people fail even with all of the above. It's just easier to blame the firm you were trading with than yourself.

I know a lot of happy people at WTS.

Quote from ronin266:

What´s wrong with WTS? I´d been researching a lot about it, found a lot of "negatively neutral" comments, nothing concrete. But the atmosphere seems "bad" overall.
The range of comments goes from "they are not serious" to "they are a big trading desk internalizator and frontrunner" and "if you don´t believe me, try it with your money".

Is there any true about all this negative vibe??

As far as i´ve found, they are one of the biggest/oldest prop firms. Concentrate in hft and rebating strategies. Offer a lot of access to smart/dark routing. And have some branches around there. A lot of traders lost money with them, some are making it for years, mostly scalpers.

What´s so different about them, comparing with other props like Bright, Echo or Chimera??.

PM if you like.

 

[EricP]

Quote from Don Bright:


As for normal trading, with multiple symbols, pricing is very similar for US trading firms.

Just curious, are you attempting to imply that for 'normal trading', their rates are comparable with those charged by Bright trading? I don't think that's close to being true.

Maybe you intended to imply that for normal trading, their rates are similar to other prop firms that charge highly competitive rates, which I think is a fair statement.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from EricP:

Just curious, are you attempting to imply that for 'normal trading', their rates are comparable with those charged by Bright trading? I don't think that's close to being true.

Maybe you intended to imply that for normal trading, their rates are similar to other prop firms that charge highly competitive rates, which I think is a fair statement.

Within reason of course. At about 30/100 for medium volume traders (some less, some slightly more), not too bad. Same or better than G2, Echo etc. The whole difference is just the ticket charge Canadian model - that's all I'm saying. Give or take a dime or less I'm told, all things considered. As I said, "all good."

Don

Edit: Can you name a couple of licensed firms that charge less than 25 cents or so? Last time I asked someone, and made calls, there were no real responses. Not trying to get into anything here, just don't like "implying" that we are charging way too much. Remember, I keep in contact with my friends at other Firms, and now have a new friend at WTS.

 

[EricP]

Quote from Don Bright:

Within reason of course. At about 30/100 for medium volume traders (some less, some slightly more), not too bad. Same or better than G2, Echo etc. The whole difference is just the ticket charge Canadian model - that's all I'm saying. Give or take a dime or less I'm told, all things considered. As I said, "all good."

Don

A couple of good friends of mine have contacted you in the past when they were in the early stages of switching to a new firm. Your rates were nowhere even in the ballpark of what they could get from other solid firms. They've posted about these experiences here in the past. I can find the links for you, if you'd like. Note that these were not newbie losing traders, but experienced and successful guys that can be valuable clients for a firm to have.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from EricP:

A couple of good friends of mine have contacted you in the past when they were in the early stages of switching to a new firm. Your rates were nowhere even in the ballpark of what they could get from other solid firms. They've posted about these experiences here in the past. I can find the links for you, if you'd like. Note that these were not newbie losing traders, but experienced and successful guys that can be valuable clients for a firm to have.

New traders are given a fee schedule, and I'm not trying to fight or anything, but rather than focusing on BT, I'm just curious where they can get a better deal. I've gone through the posted lists of firms, simply to check competition (much shorter list these days, LOL - easier to do). I see the WTS potential, and that's fine considering their overall business models. But, other than that, I just don't see any. Heck, we've had guys from ET come over recently... not a big deal.

In any event, no worries, have a great trading day....

Don

 

[EricP]

Quote from Don Bright:

New traders are given a fee schedule, and I'm not trying to fight or anything, but rather than focusing on BT, I'm just curious where they can get a better deal. I've gone through the posted lists of firms, simply to check competition (much shorter list these days, LOL - easier to do). I see the WTS potential, and that's fine considering their overall business models. But, other than that, I just don't see any. Heck, we've had guys from ET come over recently... not a big deal.

In any event, no worries, have a great trading day....

Don

I don't have time to research rates every month, but your claims have been similar for many years. Here are a couple links from a few trader friends (well known and very successful traders here on ET) from just a few years ago:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1864939#post1864939

Quote from Dustin:

As a true life example, after getting shut down at Tuco I called Echo and Bright. Don's quoted rate for me was >50% over Echo's rate, so I chose the latter. (With the >1k rate at Bright it's hard to compare exactly)

I've traded with Bright in the past, he knew my volume, and the rate didn't compare. I do 2-4M/mo volume fwiw.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1865098#post1865098

Quote from Shreddog:

I trade at Echo after considering Bright. So here's my comparison.

As far as rates maybe I just can't negotiate because there was no comparison. My rates at Echo are much lower than the best I could get out of Bright. There really was no "negoatiation" it was pretty much a take it or leave it offer from Bright. And Echo doesn't hold back a penny a share to rebate at the end of the month. If you are a volume trader that really adds up.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1855172#post1855172

Quote from lescor:

You can't compare apples to oranges. If you are comparing an unbundled rate from Bright you have to compare it to the unbundled rate from IB. That rate happens to be .35 cents per share to start but kicks down to .20 after only 300,000 shares in the month. And that is on every share traded. So Bright's rates are actually more than double IB's in most cases.

But IB won't show you their balance sheets, you have to decide for yourself what that's worth.

Then, as now, you were implying that Brights rates were comparable or even better than most other firms. That simply wasn't the case then, nor is it true today. The ET community can judge for themselves the credibility of long-term, valued posters such as Dustin, Lescor and Shreddog. None has any agenda to promote (nor do I).