What will Obama "Change"? What particular "Hope" does he offer?

[Yannis]

Quote from bigdavediode:

"After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988, ..."

Small potatoes, mostly self-serving, political-career-building activities, sorry.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from bigdavediode:

"After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[12][14] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[15] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute."

That's just Wikipedia, but it looks accurate.

I think your confusing "poverty reduction" with activism. A budget of 400k with 13 people on board isn't exactly the Red Cross. I don't mean to demean Obamas work in that regard-I'm sure he's a concerned guy-but even he downplays the whole thing. From a 1995 interview:

From 1984 to '88 Obama built an organization in Roseland and the nearby Altgeld Gardens public housing complex that mobilized hundreds of citizens. Obama says the campaign experienced "modest successes" in winning residents a place at the table where a job-training facility was launched, asbestos and lead paint were negotiated out of the local schools, and community interests were guarded in the development of the area's landfills.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/archive/barackobama/


Ummm... no, that's incorrect. See above. He did go on to successfully organize registration of 400,000 voters, but that was later.

Presumably yes. Project vote, the group that he was eventually director of, is currently active in 11 states, and out of the 400,000 voters he registered, only about 150,000 seem to have been in Illinois.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/

Dave he wasn't the national head he was the Chicago director. From your own link: "Six months after he took the helm of Chicago's Project Vote!...."



Other than working in private practice, the private sector, charity, authorship, and the public sector, what else do you think he should have done to flesh out his experience?

I don't ever harp on his lack of "experience". Experience is over hyped. Tom Brady won a Super Bowl MVP in the 17th start of his career. Chicagoan Bob Newhart recorded one of the biggest selling albums of all time at his first show in front of an audience. Obama has plenty of "experience" It's his ineffectiveness that's the problem. What did the Developing Communities Project really achieve. Nothing eh? If anything Roseland spiraled into the abyss AFTER these "programs." I don't care if a guys played in enough games-I care if he wins. I was no Clinton booster but it was clear he did a good job as a Governor and it translated to D.C. Obama just hasn't done the job.

Transit? That's municipal. Graduation rates are school board. African American voter registration is up from his work, though.

Since David Axelrod is also Daley's chief campaign strategist it's disingenuous to portray Obama as something less than a Chicago creature. Chicago transit is funded by the state of Illinois and it's failing. The schools get dick from the state. 49th in the country. Why? Democrats in charge. Obama and his ilk to blame.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...chool-funding-lawsuit-21aug21,0,1276468.story



Well since he voted for increasing the minimum wage to $6.15 during his tenure in the state senate, I would say, again, that the poor would say that.

If you're not working then why care what minimum wage is set at. Chicago unemployment is now 7.5% with the rate among young Chicago blacks triple that figure. So much for that mythical 6.15 an hour.

http://www.suntimes.com/business/1120134,localjobs082108.article

As one reader responded: "The economy in Chicago is in the tubes, the Chicago Public School System is atrocious, the CTA is falling apart and inefficient, the Chicago Police Department is undermanned 3,000+ police officers, crime is skyrocketing, the Chicago Fire Department is short hundreds of firefighters, there is a 416 million dollar budget deficit, the sales tax is the highest in the nation and the only thing the Mayor cares about is hosting the 2016 Olympics."

Where is the esteemed Senator from Illinois and resident of Chicago on these issues?



I haven't heard him say such a thing. In fact, he seems to be fairly conservative in his views in that regard. You can see his fairly detailed (for a presidential candidate) 60 page position paper here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

Oh I know he's "fairly conservative in his views in that regard" He's up Israels ass like any other neo-con. Spending trillions on the military so we can continue interventionists policies. And that's change?

Sure, here:

I know his voting record. are any of these bills legislation that HE can claim were because of his advocacy. (Other than stopping the Born Alive Act.)

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress...s-voting-record-in-the-illinois-state-senate/






Yes, that's called carbon sequestration.

Sounds to me like the Get Votes In Ohio but not Piss Off Al Gore campaign.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:
I think your confusing "poverty reduction" with activism. A budget of 400k with 13 people on board isn't exactly the Red Cross. I don't mean to demean Obamas work in that regard-I'm sure he's a concerned guy-but even he downplays the whole thing. From a 1995 interview:

From 1984 to '88 Obama built an organization in Roseland and the nearby Altgeld Gardens public housing complex that mobilized hundreds of citizens.[/i]

That's in respect to the 700 volunteers he mobilized, not the registration of voters.

Obama says the campaign experienced "modest successes" in winning residents a place at the table where a job-training facility was launched, asbestos and lead paint were negotiated out of the local schools, and community interests were guarded in the development of the area's landfills.

Sounds pretty good.

Dave he wasn't the national head he was the Chicago director. From your own link: "Six months after he took the helm of Chicago's Project Vote!...."

Well, sort of. The group he headed predated project vote.

Other than working in private practice, the private sector, charity, authorship, and the public sector, what else do you think he should have done to flesh out his experience?

I don't ever harp on his lack of "experience". Experience is over hyped. Tom Brady won a Super Bowl MVP in the 17th start of his career. Chicagoan Bob Newhart recorded one of the biggest selling albums of all time at his first show in front of an audience. Obama has plenty of "experience" It's his ineffectiveness that's the problem.

From the quotes about his previous activism and organizational skills it sounds like he was very effective.

What did the Developing Communities Project really achieve. Nothing eh?

Have you noticed that I'm asked what seems like a rhetorical question, then I go out and do the research and find out that, yes, such-and-such group did accomplish a fair bit, then the questioner moves on to the next question?

Obama just hasn't done the job.

Okay. As I've said before, then you must be quite enamored with the job the Federal government has done during the last 30 years of McCain's tenure.

The schools get dick from the state. 49th in the country. Why? Democrats in charge. Obama and his ilk to blame.

I couldn't read your link as it didn't work, however I checked the SAT scores by state and Illinois does terribly measured by participation rate -- in fact, they're almost (but not quite) as bad as most of the southern states. In fact, Illinois does better in participation rate and score than Kansas, Wyoming, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Utah, Arkansas, Mississippi, etc. etc. You know, Republican states.

By score Illinois is now second highest in the nation for high SAT scores.

Paste this into an excel spreadsheet and check like I did:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-table_N.htm

If you're not working then why care what minimum wage is set at. Chicago unemployment is now 7.5% with the rate among young Chicago blacks triple that figure. So much for that mythical 6.15 an hour.

Not sure why you like to cherry pick Chicago rather than the whole state only when it's convenient. Alright, I do know -- it's because you're looking to reaffirm your beliefs. But cherry picking isn't a very logical way to discover truths.

In trade, I'll quote the unemployment rate in Sun City.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from bigdavediode:

That's in respect to the 700 volunteers he mobilized, not the registration of voters.



Sounds pretty good.



Well, sort of. The group he headed predated project vote.



From the quotes about his previous activism and organizational skills it sounds like he was very effective.



Have you noticed that I'm asked what seems like a rhetorical question, then I go out and do the research and find out that, yes, such-and-such group did accomplish a fair bit, then the questioner moves on to the next question?



Okay. As I've said before, then you must be quite enamored with the job the Federal government has done during the last 30 years of McCain's tenure.



I couldn't read your link as it didn't work, however I checked the SAT scores by state and Illinois does terribly measured by participation rate -- in fact, they're almost (but not quite) as bad as most of the southern states. In fact, Illinois does better in participation rate and score than Kansas, Wyoming, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Utah, Arkansas, Mississippi, etc. etc. You know, Republican states.

By score Illinois is now second highest in the nation for high SAT scores.

Paste this into an excel spreadsheet and check like I did:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-table_N.htm




Not sure why you like to cherry pick Chicago rather than the whole state only when it's convenient. Alright, I do know -- it's because you're looking to reaffirm your beliefs. But cherry picking isn't a very logical way to discover truths.

In trade, I'll quote the unemployment rate in Sun City.

I think it's cool you do your research and I respect your work ethic. A lot.

You might want to check your SAT scoresheet. Only 8% of Illinois schools reported-none are in Chicago. (the CPS only reports ACT's and not as a district but by individual schools)

Why do I cherry pick Chicago? Well for starters it's the third biggest city in the nation, it has a quarter of the population in Illinois and it's the city that OBAMA LIVES IN AND REPRESENETED IN SPRINGFIELD. I could make my point even better by JUST focusing on the schools WITHIN Obama's Ill Sen district. (don't get me wrong Obama actually has better district demographics than several others)

You may find this to be an interesting read on suburban Illinois vs. Chicago testing.

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/08/the-school-fund.html

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I think it's cool you do your research and I respect your work ethic. A lot.

Well thank you, it's very kind of you to say that.

Sometimes I disagree with the Democrats (okay, often I disagree with the Democrats) and OFTEN I disagree with the Republicans lately, but I've tried to find the truth by doing research.

You might want to check your SAT scoresheet. Only 8% of Illinois schools reported-none are in Chicago. (the CPS only reports ACT's and not as a district but by individual schools)

I took the average of the VMW SATs to calculate it, then sorted the list. Again, Obama was a state Senator, not a Chicago senator.

Why do I cherry pick Chicago? Well for starters it's the third biggest city in the nation, it has a quarter of the population in Illinois and it's the city that OBAMA LIVES IN AND REPRESENETED IN SPRINGFIELD.

And McCain lives in Phoenix. How did it do? (And my follow up: why does it matter unless McCain was mayor?)

I could make my point even better by JUST focusing on the schools WITHIN Obama's Ill Sen district. (don't get me wrong Obama actually has better district demographics than several others)

Look I hear you, and Phoenix has been accused of inflating test scores. (Again: who cares?) But to get back on topic, the accusation was that Obama lacked experience which both you and I agree lacks merit.

 

[Humpy]

I think a big PLUS for the Dems is that they conserve and build up the economy and then the Reps get elected and they spend the surplus and some.

 

[Yannis]

Let's Listen To Someone Who Understands Obama

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=GQadAAlK9c4

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Yannis:

Let's Listen To Someone Who Understands Obama

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=GQadAAlK9c4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E0ycYEGtqU&NR=1

Another good one

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Humpy:

I think a big PLUS for the Dems is that they conserve and build up the economy and then the Reps get elected and they spend the surplus and some.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is to look a little deeper and understand that when the Republicans take office they have to lower taxes and invest to jumpstart the economy that the Dems have almost ruined in the previous few years. For example, look at what kind of mess Reagan inherited from Carter. Not to mention the stock market collapse of 2000, and accompanying near recession, that Bush had to repair after Clinton... who had been very successful at hiding all sorts of terrible risks (like Al Qaeda's growth) under the rug and then Bush had to deal with the whole 9/11 disaster and then some. Still, under Bush, we were victorious, the Middle East is more free and more democratic, the economy boomed and millions of new jobs were created. The little pullback late last year and early this year? Natural, and gone. Look at the 2Q results: +3.3% growth, again. Oh well.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Yannis:

Let's Listen To Someone Who Understands Obama

Wow, actually that ad reflected very poorly on Hillary. Her last statement is the fallacy of mockery, her first statement is guilt by association, and her second statement was misrepresentation.

Now I'm glad she didn't win.