What Still Unites Us?

[Spike Trader]

Pat Buchanan . . . wasn't he an advisor to Reagan ?

 

[stu]

"Traditional morality" Can be defined objectively as right behavior and has now been clearly replaced with "moral relativity" which is based in peoples own wants and how they perceive reality to be. In other words moral relativity is based in one's own "EGO".

Any form of morality can be defined as right behavior. If one type of morality doesn't jive with one's standards of morality, then in all reality you are applying "moral relativity".

"Traditional morality" itself comes from the application of relativistic morality. If it didn't, then everyone everywhere would have exactly the same "Traditional morality".

The people who came to America to flee the Traditional morality of a King to assert their own mores,beliefs, folkways, and morals, were by definition being morally relativistic.
That is exactly what moral relativism is and not based in one's own "EGO".

Some people believe electing and supporting an ego maniacal sexual deviant of a President promising to make America great again while at the same time he admits to groping women - is watched mocking the disabled - and appears implicitly defending white supremacists , can still stand as a reflection of the country's "Traditional morality".

Others, probably most, disagree.

That IS moral relativism.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Some people believe electing and supporting an ego maniacal sexual deviant of a President .

.

So, I am hearing you say that you would have preferred Hillary, a morally bankrupt woman who systematically threatened and discredited the women that her serial sexual assaulter husband victimized because to destroy them was necessary for her ambitions.

Soon to be Rev. Hillary.

 

[fhl]

Any form of morality can be defined as right behavior. If one type of morality doesn't jive with one's standards of morality, then in all reality you are applying "moral relativity".

"Traditional morality" itself comes from the application of relativistic morality. If it didn't, then everyone everywhere would have exactly the same "Traditional morality".

The people who came to America to flee the Traditional morality of a King to assert their own mores,beliefs, folkways, and morals, were by definition being morally relativistic.
That is exactly what moral relativism is and not based in one's own "EGO".

Some people believe electing and supporting an ego maniacal sexual deviant of a President promising to make America great again while at the same time he admits to groping women - is watched mocking the disabled - and appears implicitly defending white supremacists , can still stand as a reflection of the country's "Traditional morality".

Others, probably most, disagree.

That IS moral relativism.

You are one nutty professor.

The people who came to America didn't bring their own morality. They didn't make it up. They brought the morality codified in a book that causes you to squirm at it's mention. The bible. A moral code that never changes. Ever.

That's in contrast to man's version of morality that changes with the wind. Like when sexual behavior that has been viewed as amoral and deviant since the dawn of time is now celebrated and extolled.

When the right elected Trump they never said that grabbing pussy was a new acceptable form of morality.
On the other hand, when Bill Clinton stuck his dong down the throat of a white house intern, the left came out of the woodwork defending it. At the time,Nina Burleigh, who is Newsweek's national political correspondent, said she'd happily give Clinton a blow job if he'd keep pushing liberal policies.

If you can't tell the difference between a moral code that never changes and one that really does change on a wing and a whim, you just might be an atheist.

 

[stu]

You are one nutty professor.

The people who came to America didn't bring their own morality. They didn't make it up. They brought the morality codified in a book that causes you to squirm at it's mention. The bible. A moral code that never changes. Ever.

That's in contrast to man's version of morality that changes with the wind. Like when sexual behavior that has been viewed as amoral and deviant since the dawn of time is now celebrated and extolled.

When the right elected Trump they never said that grabbing pussy was a new acceptable form of morality.
On the other hand, when Bill Clinton stuck his dong down the throat of a white house intern, the left came out of the woodwork defending it. At the time,Nina Burleigh, who is Newsweek's national political correspondent, said she'd happily give Clinton a blow job if he'd keep pushing liberal policies.

If you can't tell the difference between a moral code that never changes and one that really does change on a wing and a whim, you just might be an atheist.

If any of that were true, America would be a theocracy, nothing more than a version of the Middle East. The reason it isn't is because that codified morality you see in the Bible as unchanging, did actually get changed and for good reason.

Because that unchanging codified moral Bible's standards are changed is why for instance burning people called Witch isn't considered to be moral, or why dashing infants against a rock according to Biblical code is not held to be moral, or why keeping slaves is not acceptable moral behavior; all against that morality what you say is codified in the Bible .

If morality didn't precede the Bible, you would have no way of knowing if the Bible was of a moral standard or not.

But this was about moral relativism, not some whataboutism which seems to be the favored get out whenever the current President's lack of morality is highlighted.

 

[stu]

So, I am hearing you say that you would have preferred Hillary, a morally bankrupt woman who systematically threatened and discredited the women that her serial sexual assaulter husband victimized because to destroy them was necessary for her ambitions.

Soon to be Rev. Hillary.

Comparing the standard of morality displayed by one politician against another, is moral relativism. That's what you should be hearing me say 'cause that's what I'm sayin' and it's why what the OP is sayin' is a heap of mooseshit.

 

[Scataphagos]

What Still Unites Us?
Thursday - August 24, 2017 at 11:41 pm

By Patrick J. Buchanan

Decades ago, a debate over what kind of nation America is roiled the conservative movement.

Neocons claimed America was an “ideological nation” a “creedal nation,” dedicated to the proposition that “all men are created equal.”

Expropriating the biblical mandate, “Go forth and teach all nations!” they divinized democracy and made the conversion of mankind to the democratic faith their mission here on earth.

With his global crusade for democracy, George W. Bush bought into all this. Result: Ashes in our mouths and a series of foreign policy disasters, beginning with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Behind the Trumpian slogan “America First” lay a conviction that, with the Cold War over and the real ideological nation, the USSR, shattered into pieces along ethnic lines, it was time for America to come home.

Contra the neocons, traditionalists argued that, while America was uniquely great, the nation was united by faith, culture, language, history, heroes, holidays, mores, manners, customs and traditions. A common feature of Americans, black and white, was pride in belonging to a people that had achieved so much.

The insight attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville — “America is great because she is good, and if America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great” — was a belief shared by almost all.

What makes our future appear problematic is that what once united us now divides us. While Presidents Wilson and Truman declared us to be a “Christian nation,” Christianity has been purged from our public life and sheds believers every decade. Atheism and agnosticism are growing rapidly, especially among the young.

Traditional morality, grounded in Christianity, is being discarded. Half of all marriages end in divorce. Four-in-10 children are born out of wedlock. Unrestricted abortion and same-sex marriage — once regarded as marks of decadence and decline — are now seen as human rights and the hallmarks of social progress.

Tens of millions of us do not speak English. Where most of our music used to be classic, popular, country and western, and jazz, much of it now contains rutting lyrics that used to be unprintable.

Where we used to have three national networks, we have three 24-hour cable news channels and a thousand websites that reinforce our clashing beliefs on morality, culture, politics and race.

Consider but a few events post-Charlottesville.

“Murderer” was painted on the San Fernando statue of Fr. Junipero Serra, the Franciscan who founded the missions that became San Diego, San Francisco, San Juan Capistrano and Santa Clara.

America’s oldest monument honoring Columbus, in Baltimore, was vandalized. Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia called for Robert E. Lee’s statue to be removed from Capitol and replaced by — Pocahontas.

According to legend, this daughter of Chief Powhatan saved Captain John Smith from being beheaded by throwing herself across his neck. The Chief was a “person of interest” in the disappearance of the “Lost Colony” of Roanoke Island, among whose missing was Virginia Dare, the first European baby born in British America.

Why did Kaine not call for John Smith himself, leader of the Jamestown Colony that fought off Indian attacks, to be so honored?

In New Orleans, “Tear It Down” was spray-painted on a statue of Joan of Arc, a gift from France in 1972. Besides being a canonized saint in the Catholic Church and a legendary heroine of France, what did the Maid of Orleans do to deserve this?

Taken together, we are seeing the discoverers, explorers and missionaries of North America demonized as genocidal racists all. The Founding Fathers are either slave owners or sanctioners of slavery.

Our nation-builders either collaborated in or condoned the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans. Almost to the present, ours was a land where segregationists were honored leaders.

Bottom line for the left: Americans should be sickened and ashamed of the history that made us the world’s greatest nation. And we should acknowledge our ancestors’ guilt by tearing down any and all monuments and statues that memorialize them.

This rising segment of America, full of self-righteous rage, is determined to blacken the memory of those who have gone before us.

To another slice of America, much of the celebrated social and moral “progress” of recent decades induces a sense of nausea, summarized in the lament, “This isn’t the country we grew up in.”

Hillary Clinton famously described this segment of America as a “basket of deplorables … racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic … bigots,” and altogether “irredeemable.”

So, what still unites us? What holds us together into the indefinite future? What makes us one nation and one people? What do we offer mankind, as nations seem to recoil from what we are becoming, and are instead eager to build their futures on the basis of ethnonationalism and fundamentalist faith?

If advanced democracy has produced the disintegration of a nation that we see around us, what is the compelling case for it?

A sixth of the way through the 21st century, what is there to make us believe this will be the Second American Century?

It's difficult for our country to do any kind of unification when our government elites are busting their hump to divide us on every front. (They understand and are intentionally exploiting the notion, "A house divided cannot stand". They don't care about America or our future. They only care about their personal greed, lust for power and Leftist agenda. They won't one day "see the light" and stop. If America is to avoid going "Full Commie", it will likely take a true civil war.... a 2nd American Revolution, if you will.)

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Comparing the standard of morality displayed by one politician against another, is moral relativism. That's what you should be hearing me say 'cause that's what I'm sayin' and it's why what the OP is sayin' is a heap of mooseshit.

If it's mooseshit, then it's good shit man.

 

[Max E.]

Great article, Ive often thought about where the U.S. and Canada are going as countries, and i just cant see how we can possibly exist the way we know them today a hundred years from now. There is a reason why massive empires, and massive countries break apart at some point.

Its just become 2 sides with irreconcilable differences, and the internet only serves to further encourage tribalism.

What Still Unites Us?
Thursday - August 24, 2017 at 11:41 pm

By Patrick J. Buchanan

Decades ago, a debate over what kind of nation America is roiled the conservative movement.

Neocons claimed America was an “ideological nation” a “creedal nation,” dedicated to the proposition that “all men are created equal.”

Expropriating the biblical mandate, “Go forth and teach all nations!” they divinized democracy and made the conversion of mankind to the democratic faith their mission here on earth.

With his global crusade for democracy, George W. Bush bought into all this. Result: Ashes in our mouths and a series of foreign policy disasters, beginning with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Behind the Trumpian slogan “America First” lay a conviction that, with the Cold War over and the real ideological nation, the USSR, shattered into pieces along ethnic lines, it was time for America to come home.

Contra the neocons, traditionalists argued that, while America was uniquely great, the nation was united by faith, culture, language, history, heroes, holidays, mores, manners, customs and traditions. A common feature of Americans, black and white, was pride in belonging to a people that had achieved so much.

The insight attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville — “America is great because she is good, and if America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great” — was a belief shared by almost all.

What makes our future appear problematic is that what once united us now divides us. While Presidents Wilson and Truman declared us to be a “Christian nation,” Christianity has been purged from our public life and sheds believers every decade. Atheism and agnosticism are growing rapidly, especially among the young.

Traditional morality, grounded in Christianity, is being discarded. Half of all marriages end in divorce. Four-in-10 children are born out of wedlock. Unrestricted abortion and same-sex marriage — once regarded as marks of decadence and decline — are now seen as human rights and the hallmarks of social progress.

Tens of millions of us do not speak English. Where most of our music used to be classic, popular, country and western, and jazz, much of it now contains rutting lyrics that used to be unprintable.

Where we used to have three national networks, we have three 24-hour cable news channels and a thousand websites that reinforce our clashing beliefs on morality, culture, politics and race.

Consider but a few events post-Charlottesville.

“Murderer” was painted on the San Fernando statue of Fr. Junipero Serra, the Franciscan who founded the missions that became San Diego, San Francisco, San Juan Capistrano and Santa Clara.

America’s oldest monument honoring Columbus, in Baltimore, was vandalized. Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia called for Robert E. Lee’s statue to be removed from Capitol and replaced by — Pocahontas.

According to legend, this daughter of Chief Powhatan saved Captain John Smith from being beheaded by throwing herself across his neck. The Chief was a “person of interest” in the disappearance of the “Lost Colony” of Roanoke Island, among whose missing was Virginia Dare, the first European baby born in British America.

Why did Kaine not call for John Smith himself, leader of the Jamestown Colony that fought off Indian attacks, to be so honored?

In New Orleans, “Tear It Down” was spray-painted on a statue of Joan of Arc, a gift from France in 1972. Besides being a canonized saint in the Catholic Church and a legendary heroine of France, what did the Maid of Orleans do to deserve this?

Taken together, we are seeing the discoverers, explorers and missionaries of North America demonized as genocidal racists all. The Founding Fathers are either slave owners or sanctioners of slavery.

Our nation-builders either collaborated in or condoned the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans. Almost to the present, ours was a land where segregationists were honored leaders.

Bottom line for the left: Americans should be sickened and ashamed of the history that made us the world’s greatest nation. And we should acknowledge our ancestors’ guilt by tearing down any and all monuments and statues that memorialize them.

This rising segment of America, full of self-righteous rage, is determined to blacken the memory of those who have gone before us.

To another slice of America, much of the celebrated social and moral “progress” of recent decades induces a sense of nausea, summarized in the lament, “This isn’t the country we grew up in.”

Hillary Clinton famously described this segment of America as a “basket of deplorables … racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic … bigots,” and altogether “irredeemable.”

So, what still unites us? What holds us together into the indefinite future? What makes us one nation and one people? What do we offer mankind, as nations seem to recoil from what we are becoming, and are instead eager to build their futures on the basis of ethnonationalism and fundamentalist faith?

If advanced democracy has produced the disintegration of a nation that we see around us, what is the compelling case for it?

A sixth of the way through the 21st century, what is there to make us believe this will be the Second American Century?

 

[fhl]

my kind of justice