I don't think I'd be able to do a salaried job for more than a day or two, regardless of how much they offered. The closest i would be able to come would be working at an entreprenurial venture where I had some of the equity, as long as they had totally flexible hours. For whatever reason, the motivator of a high salary is more than offset by the fact of having to fit into someone else's schedule and be at their beck & call.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
What salary would it take for you to quit this?
- Thread starter midlifeguy
- Start date
Quote from Hooked2000:
The financial picture is a huge part of your decision making process. Costs and opportunity costs are a huge factor.
Costs for independent traders:
Pay you own health insurance $500+ a month average...younger people with no family, a bit less
No retirement package (no company matching 401k)
No paid holidays
No paid vacation days
No paid sick days
No stock option potential
No year end bonus
Sometimes huge stress levels when in a drawdown.
Riding the highs and lows of the business.
When you think you have an edge they move the cheese on you.
So what do you need to make trading to overcome the benefits of working for a company?
In my opinion, as a trader you would have to consistently make at least double what a company can pay you. Probably more than double to be safe.
You've forgotten the downside of being an exploited controlled peon when you work for someone else. You do the grunt work for a pittance, they are the ones who get rich. Even if you are an entrepreneur, you are still a slave to your customers. Trading is a pursuit similar to truck driving, in that it offers a lot of freedom. Your only limitations are to deliver the goods without breaking the law, how you do it is up to you.
Just my 2 cents:
I think the question focuses too much on money. I made plenty of "money" as a director in a fortune 400 company before I just got fed up with the rat race and tossed all my experience and credentials and degrees down the commode and "dropped out".
I am currently in an experimental stage to see if I can "make it" on my own without the help of anyone. What a wonderful feeling it is not being enslaved to or beholding to anyone and knowing one can provide for oneself.
I think the question should be what income to stress ratio would you return to the rat race for? More money/salary implies more responsibility. There is a knee of the curve area where one can make a reasonable salary/income with minimal oversight and stress and where one does not have to give up free personal time and liberties. This is only available in certain industries and situations.
Quality and lifestyle is everything but it is very hard if not impossible to find that in today's cut-throat, political, competitive corporate environment. God did not intend for humans to live like they do in the context of Corporations. I have seen more inhumanity to one's fellow men in the "management techniques" used today: social isolation, punished by putting on dead or no win projects, giving peers (or subordinates) control over budgets and work and not giving out charge numbers to those they "do not like". It's BAD out there in Corporate America and getting worse. I don't know a single peer who likes their job or would stay if they had similar economic options.
So - minimize your income to stress ratio with the understanding you need a minimum level of income to offset costs/expenses (itself stressful). What good is income if the stress kills you faster than the passing of time? ON the other hand if you are working 2x as hard in the market trying to get ahead at the end of the month and failing - its time to get out and get something else going since failure is the worst stress of them all..
TS
I think the question focuses too much on money. I made plenty of "money" as a director in a fortune 400 company before I just got fed up with the rat race and tossed all my experience and credentials and degrees down the commode and "dropped out".
I am currently in an experimental stage to see if I can "make it" on my own without the help of anyone. What a wonderful feeling it is not being enslaved to or beholding to anyone and knowing one can provide for oneself.
I think the question should be what income to stress ratio would you return to the rat race for? More money/salary implies more responsibility. There is a knee of the curve area where one can make a reasonable salary/income with minimal oversight and stress and where one does not have to give up free personal time and liberties. This is only available in certain industries and situations.
Quality and lifestyle is everything but it is very hard if not impossible to find that in today's cut-throat, political, competitive corporate environment. God did not intend for humans to live like they do in the context of Corporations. I have seen more inhumanity to one's fellow men in the "management techniques" used today: social isolation, punished by putting on dead or no win projects, giving peers (or subordinates) control over budgets and work and not giving out charge numbers to those they "do not like". It's BAD out there in Corporate America and getting worse. I don't know a single peer who likes their job or would stay if they had similar economic options.
So - minimize your income to stress ratio with the understanding you need a minimum level of income to offset costs/expenses (itself stressful). What good is income if the stress kills you faster than the passing of time? ON the other hand if you are working 2x as hard in the market trying to get ahead at the end of the month and failing - its time to get out and get something else going since failure is the worst stress of them all..
TS
Hi
I actually have 20 years experience, the past 8 as a buyside trader so saying I have only done this for 5 months is a little misleading. I have only been doing it on my own (not working for someone) for 5 months. I am making less but WAY HAPPIER. I was miserable in the corporate world..now the job offer I have is doing high stress trading again with non-stop phones from clients and advisors and no time to even use the bathroom. Potential is $100k a year. Is it worth it? I really don't know. My stress level in my last job burned me out and it wasn't the work, it was the idiotic micromanaging idiots that bossed everyone around.
I actually have 20 years experience, the past 8 as a buyside trader so saying I have only done this for 5 months is a little misleading. I have only been doing it on my own (not working for someone) for 5 months. I am making less but WAY HAPPIER. I was miserable in the corporate world..now the job offer I have is doing high stress trading again with non-stop phones from clients and advisors and no time to even use the bathroom. Potential is $100k a year. Is it worth it? I really don't know. My stress level in my last job burned me out and it wasn't the work, it was the idiotic micromanaging idiots that bossed everyone around.
Quote from TrendSailor:
Just my 2 cents:
I think the question focuses too much on money. I made plenty of "money" as a director in a fortune 400 company before I just got fed up with the rat race and tossed all my experience and credentials and degrees down the commode and "dropped out".
I am currently in an experimental stage to see if I can "make it" on my own without the help of anyone. What a wonderful feeling it is not being enslaved to or beholding to anyone and knowing one can provide for oneself.
I think the question should be what income to stress ratio would you return to the rat race for? More money/salary implies more responsibility. There is a knee of the curve area where one can make a reasonable salary/income with minimal oversight and stress and where one does not have to give up free personal time and liberties. This is only available in certain industries and situations.
Quality and lifestyle is everything but it is very hard if not impossible to find that in today's cut-throat, political, competitive corporate environment. God did not intend for humans to live like they do in the context of Corporations. I have seen more inhumanity to one's fellow men in the "management techniques" used today: social isolation, punished by putting on dead or no win projects, giving peers (or subordinates) control over budgets and work and not giving out charge numbers to those they "do not like". It's BAD out there in Corporate America and getting worse. I don't know a single peer who likes their job or would stay if they had similar economic options.
So - minimize your income to stress ratio with the understanding you need a minimum level of income to offset costs/expenses (itself stressful). What good is income if the stress kills you faster than the passing of time? ON the other hand if you are working 2x as hard in the market trying to get ahead at the end of the month and failing - its time to get out and get something else going since failure is the worst stress of them all..
TS
Quote from midlifeguy:
Hi
I actually have 20 years experience, the past 8 as a buyside trader so saying I have only done this for 5 months is a little misleading. I have only been doing it on my own (not working for someone) for 5 months. I am making less but WAY HAPPIER. I was miserable in the corporate world..now the job offer I have is doing high stress trading again with non-stop phones from clients and advisors and no time to even use the bathroom. Potential is $100k a year. Is it worth it? I really don't know. My stress level in my last job burned me out and it wasn't the work, it was the idiotic micromanaging idiots that bossed everyone around.
I have never met a buyside trader that makes 100K? more like 175k-250k all in as an execution trader...much more if you have your own book... Are you sure you are not middle office? 100k is not a lot of money and to be honest... missing out on a 100k salary is not a big deal... thats just me...if I wer ein your shoes I would take the risk of trading.... especially since you say you have been in the markets for 20 years...
Quote from midlifeguy:
Hi
I actually have 20 years experience,
...
Potential is $100k a year. Is it worth it?
one of my old employers pay entry level people around 80k/year not including bonus. the job you describe sounds like a clerk. what would you gain out of it? if its dealing with OTC markets (non exchange traded securities) it might be ok for a bit. Also, if you make less than 100k/yr trading then maybe its not for you.
Quote from midlifeguy:
Hi
I actually have 20 years experience, the past 8 as a buyside trader so saying I have only done this for 5 months is a little misleading. I have only been doing it on my own (not working for someone) for 5 months. I am making less but WAY HAPPIER. I was miserable in the corporate world..now the job offer I have is doing high stress trading again with non-stop phones from clients and advisors and no time to even use the bathroom. Potential is $100k a year. Is it worth it? I really don't know. My stress level in my last job burned me out and it wasn't the work, it was the idiotic micromanaging idiots that bossed everyone around.
sounds like you've answered your own question. stay a trader; don't return to corporate america. why would you even consider it?
i know it's tempting and flattering that they want you, but it sounds like it would be a mistake.
Where?? New York? It isn't here in San Diego.
Quote from rosy2:
one of my old employers pay entry level people around 80k/year not including bonus. the job you describe sounds like a clerk. what would you gain out of it? if its dealing with OTC markets (non exchange traded securities) it might be ok for a bit. Also, if you make less than 100k/yr trading then maybe its not for you.