What Programming Language For Trading Jobs ?

[Low Salubrity Thug]

Would learning R benefit me in a prop trading role and my own trading to a degree ?

It's a language for performing statistical calculations and then displaying the results graphically. Surely that's the sort of thing anyone in your field does on a regular basis? I'm mildly staggered you're studying economics and finance, but haven't come across it.

You can get everything you need for free. Since you don't have an IT background I assume you will be working on Windows. As such I'd recommend downloading Visual Studio 2015 Community and R Tools For Visual Studio. That's probably the easiest entry point. Visual Studio is a very user friendly programming environment (whether you are developing Python, C++, C#). That said, I'm sure the Linux boys will chime in shortly and roundly lambast me.

Start with some basic tutorials such as these and see how you get on.

No more spoon feeding. Time to do some leg work yourself.

I met with a private equity exec a few months back. I asked him how I can stand out these days on my resume and he said saying you are an expert at financial modelling or a programming language can help since everything is "quantitative and statistical these days".

Hmmm, a 'private equity exec' eh? No comment.

Excel just doesn't cut it in my opinion.

And hasn't done for complex tasks for many, many years. Doesn't stop people using it though...and usually for the most inappropriate tasks.

I'm reminded of this debacle.

You'd be amazed how widely used it is within the finance community. Seriously. People will try to shoe-horn everything into a spreadsheet.

 

[conduit]

Saying you know means shite. You better back it up with solid skills because saying stuff like that is like begging to be quizzed on it. Anyway. I think you got enough advice here. Time to put in some work I would say?

I met with a private equity exec a few months back. I asked him how I can stand out these days on my resume and he said saying you are an expert at financial modelling or a programming language can help since everything is "quantitative and statistical these days".

 

[conduit]

Wow I get more and more the impression there is a guy with substance behind your posts. Such rare find on this site. I guess you also work in the industry?

It's a language for performing statistical calculations and then displaying the results graphically. Surely that's the sort of thing anyone in your field does on a regular basis? I'm mildly staggered you're studying economics and finance, but haven't come across it.

You can get everything you need for free. Since you don't have an IT background I assume you will be working on Windows. As such I'd recommend downloading Visual Studio 2015 Community and R Tools For Visual Studio. That's probably the easiest entry point. Visual Studio is a very user friendly programming environment (whether you are developing Python, C++, C#). That said, I'm sure the Linux boys will chime in shortly and roundly lambast me.

Start with some basic tutorials such as these and see how you get on.

No more spoon feeding. Time to do some leg work yourself.



Hmmm, a 'private equity exec' eh? No comment.



And hasn't done for complex tasks for many, many years. Doesn't stop people using it though...and usually for the most inappropriate tasks.

I'm reminded of this debacle.

You'd be amazed how widely used it is within the finance community. Seriously. People will try to shoe-horn everything into a spreadsheet.

 

[Low Salubrity Thug]

Wow I get more and more the impression there is a guy with substance behind your posts. Such rare find on this site. I guess you also work in the industry?

Well, I run a little independent operation now, but yes, my background is in The City.

Would you believe that when I graduated I originally started out as a lowly junior web developer! I made the move into finance pretty quickly though and left the webby stuff far behind. That was over 15 years ago. I really don't think that career path would be possible now. Saying that, I think if you are any good as a coder in London you're likely to find yourself moving into finance in some capacity.

I decided to go independent as I wanted the freedom. The institutions pay big wages, but in return they own you. I wanted my weekends and evenings back. Which I had for a brief while. Then I had kids.

 

[MrMuppet]

Listen Fundlord, cause this will be advice not only for your career but for your entire life:

If you want to do A, then learn A and get good at it. If you want A and try to achieve something by learning B you won't go anywhere. Like if you work your entire life just to retire and travel the world, travel the world NOW, don't take any detours, you will just waste your time.

Focus on the things you want and go the direct route.
You want to work for a P/L desk? Then focus on delivering P/L. Your competition is not the PhD's who can code, but the selftaught guys in their 20's that are already positive and look for a way to step up their game. If you learn to code, hit the jackpot and get a position, you will be the guy who codes stuff for the P/L guys instead of trade your own book.

But if you are honest with yourself, you don't want to compete. You want to learn coding in order to sneak into an entry level position so you can learn to trade there.
And that, my friend, is the bullshit (together with "I will work harder than anyone else") the P/L - desks are reading 100 times per month on every resume and they'll just smell your begging.

It takes a village to raise a trader and they rather select a guy in his 20s who is positive/break even and already worked his ass off to get there than the wimp who can everything but trade and teach him the basics.

It's different for the big banks, but since you said you want to trade, they aren't an option for you anyways.

 

[conduit]

Lol yeah, reminds me that I was even pricing PRDCs on Excel at some points. Of course the risk and pricing came from a powerful backend but still all hyper parameters and note specifics were done in excel and prices and risk streamed back to Excel. Funny world. Despite its many shortcomings excel is still the fastest (in terms of time it takes to implement) and cheapest ways to submit input data from and return results to.

It's a language for performing statistical calculations and then displaying the results graphically. Surely that's the sort of thing anyone in your field does on a regular basis? I'm mildly staggered you're studying economics and finance, but haven't come across it.

You can get everything you need for free. Since you don't have an IT background I assume you will be working on Windows. As such I'd recommend downloading Visual Studio 2015 Community and R Tools For Visual Studio. That's probably the easiest entry point. Visual Studio is a very user friendly programming environment (whether you are developing Python, C++, C#). That said, I'm sure the Linux boys will chime in shortly and roundly lambast me.

Start with some basic tutorials such as these and see how you get on.

No more spoon feeding. Time to do some leg work yourself.



Hmmm, a 'private equity exec' eh? No comment.



And hasn't done for complex tasks for many, many years. Doesn't stop people using it though...and usually for the most inappropriate tasks.

I'm reminded of this debacle.

You'd be amazed how widely used it is within the finance community. Seriously. People will try to shoe-horn everything into a spreadsheet.

 

[conduit]

Ha, amazing, very similar background here. Started 14-15 years ago from mediocre college as low level business analyst, but really wanted to be a trader. I literally bent over backwards to climb up. Got my CFA learned several programming languages but none of that got me where I wanted to be. Only after I got into a top Quant finance Ms program did all the doors magically open. That was around 2005. Since then I loved every minute of my job and never regretted a single choice. The work itself was awesome and I think I did reasonably well. But the environment sucked and I disliked the people which is what drove me to prop trading aside my interest in running my own books. Sell side trading floors were toxic IMHO and probably contributed to me having become a cynical jerk over time. Eventually started on my own in 2009 after my last bank went bankrupt (no names ) I still love every single day of work, and feel everything I had ever done before finally started to come together and paid off as it prepared me for what I am doing now. But I do miss IT departments, lol. Lots of wasted time to get background architecture right. I would never want to back into an employee type gig,aside the fact that the times of prop trading at banks are almost entirely gone. But who knows. Anyone who worked in this industry for a while knows literally anything could happen. I would not be surprised that DoddFrank gets entirely killed should, God forbid, Trump get ever elected.

I hear you re kids, there are times they can be more demanding than a fulltime job...

Anyway nice to hear there are guys here with a similar background.

Well, I run a little independent operation now, but yes, my background is in The City.

Would you believe that when I graduated I originally started out as a lowly junior web developer! I made the move into finance pretty quickly though and left the webby stuff far behind. That was over 15 years ago. I really don't think that career path would be possible now. Saying that, I think if you are any good as a coder in London you're likely to find yourself moving into finance in some capacity.

I decided to go independent as I wanted the freedom. The institutions pay big wages, but in return they own you. I wanted my weekends and evenings back. Which I had for a brief while. Then I had kids.

 

[AlphaMale]

There seems to be 5 times as much jobs for C++ as there is for python so obviously its what firms are looking for these days.

Anyone know how long it takes to become proficient ? Just downloaded C++ for dummies it has over 800 pages in it.

Also 5x higher competition for those jobs... :-/ I've recently gone from Matlab, C++, C# to F#...

 

[Low Salubrity Thug]

Ha, amazing, very similar background here. Started 14-15 years ago from mediocre college as low level business analyst, but really wanted to be a trader. I literally bent over backwards to climb up. Got my CFA learned several programming languages but none of that got me where I wanted to be. Only after I got into a top Quant finance Ms program did all the doors magically open. That was around 2005. Since then I loved every minute of my job and never regretted a single choice. The work itself was awesome and I think I did reasonably well.

Hats off to you. It's not easy coming in at the bottom and climbing up. You have to be prepared to take a lot of shit and stay focused. Not many folk can do it.

But the environment sucked and I disliked the people which is what drove me to prop trading aside my interest in running my own books. Sell side trading floors were toxic IMHO and probably contributed to me having become a cynical jerk over time.

I hear ya. My colleagues were a major contributing factor in my decision to jump ship. You'd struggle to find anywhere with a higher concentration of cocksuckers than a trading floor. Some desks were better than others though. I found the more technology focussed groups much more respectful and generally decent people. I never got involved in exotics, although I did spend a while sharing a floor with a loudmouthed wanker who worked compound FX options. He regularly blessed the entire office with his thoughts. I found myself specialising in market microstructure work, which is where I still am today.

Eventually started on my own in 2009 after my last bank went bankrupt (no names )

I'm currently sat on a very nice chair which came from the Lehman's office here in London.

But I do miss IT departments, lol. Lots of wasted time to get background architecture right. I would never want to back into an employee type gig,aside the fact that the times of prop trading at banks are almost entirely gone. But who knows.

Me too. I miss the banter...and the fact I used to learn a lot from other people.

Anyone who worked in this industry for a while knows literally anything could happen. I would not be surprised that DoddFrank gets entirely killed should, God forbid, Trump get ever elected.

Well, the US has it's self destruct button and we've got ours. We'll find out today if the great British public decide to press it.

I hear you re kids, there are times they can be more demanding than a fulltime job...

Anyway nice to hear there are guys here with a similar background.

Yeah, likewise. I'm glad I stumbled across this thread.

I rarely stop by this site as so much of the content is utter drivel. However, I've been ill this week and ET has been an entertaining diversion.

 

[conduit]

all that remains to be said is, get better soon ;-)

Hats off to you. It's not easy coming in at the bottom and climbing up. You have to be prepared to take a lot of shit and stay focused. Not many folk can do it.



I hear ya. My colleagues were a major contributing factor in my decision to jump ship. You'd struggle to find anywhere with a higher concentration of cocksuckers than a trading floor. Some desks were better than others though. I found the more technology focussed groups much more respectful and generally decent people. I never got involved in exotics, although I did spend a while sharing a floor with a loudmouthed wanker who worked compound FX options. He regularly blessed the entire office with his thoughts. I found myself specialising in market microstructure work, which is where I still am today.



I'm currently sat on a very nice chair which came from the Lehman's office here in London.



Me too. I miss the banter...and the fact I used to learn a lot from other people.



Well, the US has it's self destruct button and we've got ours. We'll find out today if the great British public decide to press it.



Yeah, likewise. I'm glad I stumbled across this thread.

I rarely stop by this site as so much of the content is utter drivel. However, I've been ill this week and ET has been an entertaining diversion.