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What price religion?
- Thread starter spect8or
- Start date
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:
Here's my point:
Every other religion on the planet anthopomorphizes God. God is "humanized". JudeoChristianity on the other hand shows God to be multidimensional. The 1) Trinity, 2) ability to hear simultaneous prayers, and 3) the ability to have foreknowledge/omnipotence simulataneously with free will are all outgrowths of multidimensionality.
Dude, multidimensionality is just as big a mystery to you as it is to me. And it's not proven or even strongly supported. Although it might well one day be. It is obvious you are just using because you think (incorrectly) it strengthens your own case. Typical theistic tactics. Nothing new here.
The Judeo-Christian god is as anthropomorphic as anything out there. Who are you trying to kid? Just because the modern Christian realizes how absurd anthropomorphic gods look doesn't rule out the fact that throughout history this god carried all the hallmarks of a "big daddy". Ever seen icons depicting god, usually from Orthodox churches (that were around from the beginning)? Where god is an "old man"?
He listens to us, talks to us, he is "jealous" (a character failing?!), he created us in his own image (or, the other way around, methinks!), he gets mad, he makes rules etc How much more anthropomorphic can he get?
Shoe:
>I believe that most people that read this thread
>realize how incredible the Jewish people really
>are over the centuries.
Could you list a few of the things that you believe have made the Jews "incredible" over the centuries? I respect the Jews on the same level I respect other cultures...just wondering what has made them incredible compared to many other cultures.
JB
>I believe that most people that read this thread
>realize how incredible the Jewish people really
>are over the centuries.
Could you list a few of the things that you believe have made the Jews "incredible" over the centuries? I respect the Jews on the same level I respect other cultures...just wondering what has made them incredible compared to many other cultures.
JB
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:
As I'm sure you're aware, the Old Testament has several groupings including Genesis, the Torah, Histories and Prophets. The Christian is not under obligation to follow the Law that is primarily in the 2nd grouping that I mentioned.
Acts 15:29 Here the Gentiles are very specifically only given four items to follow of the Law including abstaining from meat offered to idols, strangled or blood and fornication.
Rom 7:6 "Now we are delivered from the Law..."
Paul spends three chapters in Galatians arguing aggressively against Christians being under the Law. (Gal 3-5)
Gal 5:18 "But if you are led of the Spirit, you are not under the Law."
Again, I can think of fewer more clear doctrines in the New Testament than we are not under the Law. That's why you would be hard pressed to find any Christian that lives under Jewish Law. (I have never even heard of a cult doing this...)
Shoe, I'm going to have to agree with you here. The idea that Christians are freed from the Law through faith in Jesus is well supported.
However, there's the serious point of Matthew 5:17-18 to consider. (Believe it or not I actually really enjoy reading the bible (NT) and I knew this was in there somewhere but man it took me ages to find it!)
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
That's a tough one isn't it!
The problem is the two "untils". Is the law to stand until "heaven and earth disappear" or unitl "everything is accomplished"?
If "everything is accomplished" is supposed to happen at the same time as "heaven and earth disappear", then it would mean, I would guess, that the law is still supposed to stand.
If "until heaven and earth disappear" can be excused away somehow, as a metaphor, then "until everything is accomplished" could be refering to the crucifixion; basically meaning that the law stands while Jesus is "alive" (until crucified). Although that does make you wonder why he'd bother saying it then, given that the law was only going to be applicable for a little while longer.
Of course, Paul was writing much earlier than Matthew. Paul, in fact, doesn't even give any indication that he was aware of a historical Jesus, he certainly never refers to him that way. Maybe Paul just didn't know that Jesus had said the above?
Well, whichever way you look at it, the passage does require some serious thought if you're a Christian after the truth.
My understanding of the Matthew passage is that the Law is still in effect but the penalty for transgression of that law was paid in full by the crucifixion. There is as you say another interpretation that says the law was completely set aside by the crucifixion but to me there are some problems with that interpretation.
The symbolic tearing of the curtain in the temple was to show that under the old law system only through a priest could you obtain forgiveness and that with sacrifice. When the curtain was torn then anyone could approach the Holy One to ask forgiveness directly and the sacrifice was that of Christ. We still need to obey the law but we won't and now there is a new avenue of forgiveness.
The symbolic tearing of the curtain in the temple was to show that under the old law system only through a priest could you obtain forgiveness and that with sacrifice. When the curtain was torn then anyone could approach the Holy One to ask forgiveness directly and the sacrifice was that of Christ. We still need to obey the law but we won't and now there is a new avenue of forgiveness.
For those who do not believe that there is a god, what would your reaction be if the mars rover sent back clear photos of a well built house on the martian surface(assuming that the photo was proven to be legitimate)?
To answer the question posed many pages ago. Betrand Russell said life would be meaningless.
What I say hardly matters because I can not put myself in that position. If I were to now find out that there is no god, I would look at life completely differently would I wind up with the same values I do not know. In the end I might buy into the meaning of life is the process of finding meaning in your life but
I would very seriously consider being a Benny Hinn Robert Tilton type but play for a higher end audience, I would be looking for tithes from the tithes that really matter. I would think about the jet, the church in Aspen and Palm beach. I would wear top of the line suits and cuffs. And after I made enough I would write a tell- all novel and a movie.
or
I would become a Oliver Velez
or
I might try to make myself a chick magnet.
I would hope I would in the end come up with solid values, but I think I would give in to temptation. In the end would have probabley become a surfer who advertised heavily for personal injury law cases and had a couple of wives but that televangelist thing might have been to easy for me.
I just do know but I would definitely be more bummed about getting older.
By the way this thread has lost focus.
What I say hardly matters because I can not put myself in that position. If I were to now find out that there is no god, I would look at life completely differently would I wind up with the same values I do not know. In the end I might buy into the meaning of life is the process of finding meaning in your life but
I would very seriously consider being a Benny Hinn Robert Tilton type but play for a higher end audience, I would be looking for tithes from the tithes that really matter. I would think about the jet, the church in Aspen and Palm beach. I would wear top of the line suits and cuffs. And after I made enough I would write a tell- all novel and a movie.
or
I would become a Oliver Velez
or
I might try to make myself a chick magnet.
I would hope I would in the end come up with solid values, but I think I would give in to temptation. In the end would have probabley become a surfer who advertised heavily for personal injury law cases and had a couple of wives but that televangelist thing might have been to easy for me.
I just do know but I would definitely be more bummed about getting older.
By the way this thread has lost focus.
My reaction would be.... COOL!
What an amazing accomplishment.
Science fricken rocks!
peace
axeman
What an amazing accomplishment.
Science fricken rocks!
peace
axeman
Quote from kungfoofighting:
For those who do not believe that there is a god, what would your reaction be if the mars rover sent back clear photos of a well built house on the martian surface(assuming that the photo was proven to be legitimate)?
>For those who do not believe that there is a god,
>what would your reaction be if the mars rover sent
>back clear photos of a well built house on the martian
>surface(assuming that the photo was proven to be
>legitimate)?
There is nothing about a house on mars that has any bearing on my belief in god. Now, if the residents would speak to me and if they claimed a god who created them and their god would give me the time of day then I would take that into consideration. Same rules of proof as applied here on earth.
I'm not a hard guy to convince at all. Just stop running and hiding and I'll believe in you (respecting you requires more than that).
JB
>what would your reaction be if the mars rover sent
>back clear photos of a well built house on the martian
>surface(assuming that the photo was proven to be
>legitimate)?
There is nothing about a house on mars that has any bearing on my belief in god. Now, if the residents would speak to me and if they claimed a god who created them and their god would give me the time of day then I would take that into consideration. Same rules of proof as applied here on earth.
I'm not a hard guy to convince at all. Just stop running and hiding and I'll believe in you (respecting you requires more than that).
JB