What price religion? I ask what price science...
How much do we have to pay for it Danny Boy? I'm all for science, but when an enitire race is so consumed with material growth that everything else is forgotten -- in the end is it worth it? We can send 4 men to walk on the moon, but most men on this planet haven't figured out how to walk accross the street and greet their neighbors. We have seventeen year old hookers in the Burbs of LA that solicit sex in the malls not to survive, but to buy the latest clothes at that very same mall. Kids don't want to take the time to read Dostoevsky or Joyce, they want MTV's Kribs. This race is quickly becoming as spiritualy bankrupt as the medium I am using to communicare this message.
Okay, so the price you propose we are paying for science is spiritual bankruptcy?
Sounds like a BARGAIN to me!
Honestly, I just don't see it as a problem AT ALL if kids want MTV cribs rather than joyce or dostoevsky or cervantes or chopin or picasso.
An appreciation of "the arts" is just another means to emotional satisfaction. Obviously the arty-farty crowd will tell you one is so much more "sophisticated" than the other, but there's nothing inherently better worse about either.
I don't see materialism and commercialism as the problem, I see them as the best altenative.
What does it take to achieve material wealth, in this day and age, under our legal system? Hard work, honesty (for the most part) an attitude of customer service, a willingness to provide develop products people want. I think most people would agree those are desirable things.
And let's not ignore science either. Exercise that imagination of yours sonny. Or start reading some sci-fi to shake yourself up. It SCIENCE that is going to provide the BIG CHANGES (positive ones) to human kind. Science and commerce.
Now, of course someone's going to have come up with the "it won't make you happy" argument. And I'll agree to it 100%. It probably won't. Not lasting happiness anyway. But happiness is actually VERY EASY to achieve, once you know how. And it doesn't require religion or reading dostoevsky.
I know you like to bring up the "there's more to life than what you can grab with your two hands" line? Well, what is it? Why is it more important?
The bible didn't create the bombs dropped on Hiroshima or Dresden and prayer isn't the only thing the Bible preached, it preached love. Their has to be a balance to all this. IMO, you people who preach science over all else are just as bad as the religious zealots. Whats gonna get us first Danny, a nuke or Jehovah witness? And don't start with the "look what the muslims did to WTC", because if you truly believe that religion was their sole motive, then you not only sound like Gekko with your science above all else, absolute claims, and incredibly annoying caps, but you might very well have his level of understanding too.
Are you for real man? Science, in and of itself, isnt' going to get us nuked. That's absurd.
Now, not to brag, but I'm pretty well read on muslims and believe me, it is IRREFUTABLE that there's is easily the most violent religion on earth today. Now, religion may not have been the ONLY factor in 911, but take religion out of it and 911 wouldn't have happened. Sad, but true.
As for Jehovah's, they may not get us bombed, but I contend that religious thinking has other drawbacks. It does nothing to encourage scientific advancement. It can only stifle it. And scientific advancement, as I have stated, is, imo, crucial to optimizing human kinds survival in the coming MILLENNIA (I'm not just thinking about me here, see?). How many potentially great scientists are we losing thanks to religious BS?
Religion is good for one thing only, emotional comfort. But once you realize that such emotional comfort is available without all the religious BS, religion can only get in the way. It's good for nothing.
As for love, yes we all need it. But religion is no guarantee that we're going to get it. And if the facts of history are honestly assessed, I think there's a pretty clear picture that religion certainly does not lead to more love!
Religion has certainly scared everyone into thinking the whole world order would collapse if religion wasn't true, but that is just pure BS.
P1 There is no god.
P2 XXX
C1 I kill myself/others/lie/cheat/steal
How do you get from P1+P2 to C1? What is the XXX that would lead to this? Nothing. It's just bullshit.
One day, the whole show's going to be over. That's it, bang, gone, no more human kind. How's it going to happen? Comet impact? Virus? Environment going haywire? Who knows?
But one thing is for sure, it is going to be scientific advancement that is going to help our odds of survival in the meantime, nothing else.
How much do we have to pay for it Danny Boy? I'm all for science, but when an enitire race is so consumed with material growth that everything else is forgotten -- in the end is it worth it? We can send 4 men to walk on the moon, but most men on this planet haven't figured out how to walk accross the street and greet their neighbors. We have seventeen year old hookers in the Burbs of LA that solicit sex in the malls not to survive, but to buy the latest clothes at that very same mall. Kids don't want to take the time to read Dostoevsky or Joyce, they want MTV's Kribs. This race is quickly becoming as spiritualy bankrupt as the medium I am using to communicare this message.
Okay, so the price you propose we are paying for science is spiritual bankruptcy?
Sounds like a BARGAIN to me!
Honestly, I just don't see it as a problem AT ALL if kids want MTV cribs rather than joyce or dostoevsky or cervantes or chopin or picasso.
An appreciation of "the arts" is just another means to emotional satisfaction. Obviously the arty-farty crowd will tell you one is so much more "sophisticated" than the other, but there's nothing inherently better worse about either.
I don't see materialism and commercialism as the problem, I see them as the best altenative.
What does it take to achieve material wealth, in this day and age, under our legal system? Hard work, honesty (for the most part) an attitude of customer service, a willingness to provide develop products people want. I think most people would agree those are desirable things.
And let's not ignore science either. Exercise that imagination of yours sonny. Or start reading some sci-fi to shake yourself up. It SCIENCE that is going to provide the BIG CHANGES (positive ones) to human kind. Science and commerce.
Now, of course someone's going to have come up with the "it won't make you happy" argument. And I'll agree to it 100%. It probably won't. Not lasting happiness anyway. But happiness is actually VERY EASY to achieve, once you know how. And it doesn't require religion or reading dostoevsky.
I know you like to bring up the "there's more to life than what you can grab with your two hands" line? Well, what is it? Why is it more important?
The bible didn't create the bombs dropped on Hiroshima or Dresden and prayer isn't the only thing the Bible preached, it preached love. Their has to be a balance to all this. IMO, you people who preach science over all else are just as bad as the religious zealots. Whats gonna get us first Danny, a nuke or Jehovah witness? And don't start with the "look what the muslims did to WTC", because if you truly believe that religion was their sole motive, then you not only sound like Gekko with your science above all else, absolute claims, and incredibly annoying caps, but you might very well have his level of understanding too.
Are you for real man? Science, in and of itself, isnt' going to get us nuked. That's absurd.
Now, not to brag, but I'm pretty well read on muslims and believe me, it is IRREFUTABLE that there's is easily the most violent religion on earth today. Now, religion may not have been the ONLY factor in 911, but take religion out of it and 911 wouldn't have happened. Sad, but true.
As for Jehovah's, they may not get us bombed, but I contend that religious thinking has other drawbacks. It does nothing to encourage scientific advancement. It can only stifle it. And scientific advancement, as I have stated, is, imo, crucial to optimizing human kinds survival in the coming MILLENNIA (I'm not just thinking about me here, see?). How many potentially great scientists are we losing thanks to religious BS?
Religion is good for one thing only, emotional comfort. But once you realize that such emotional comfort is available without all the religious BS, religion can only get in the way. It's good for nothing.
As for love, yes we all need it. But religion is no guarantee that we're going to get it. And if the facts of history are honestly assessed, I think there's a pretty clear picture that religion certainly does not lead to more love!
Religion has certainly scared everyone into thinking the whole world order would collapse if religion wasn't true, but that is just pure BS.
P1 There is no god.
P2 XXX
C1 I kill myself/others/lie/cheat/steal
How do you get from P1+P2 to C1? What is the XXX that would lead to this? Nothing. It's just bullshit.
One day, the whole show's going to be over. That's it, bang, gone, no more human kind. How's it going to happen? Comet impact? Virus? Environment going haywire? Who knows?
But one thing is for sure, it is going to be scientific advancement that is going to help our odds of survival in the meantime, nothing else.
btw, you're the one who brought me into this discussion, you fool.