What makes a master trader?

[tradingjournals]

Quote from Handle123:

Yeah, trading hard to break the nut as often the nut is one's brain, but like all jobs, once you learn it, you just going to get better, you start finding small nuances, how to make that one extra tick in day trading or patience of waiting one more day for a swing trade.

Trading is not like all jobs. It is not even a job. It is unlike all jobs. At best, trading is a zero sum game, one cannot monetize his work and time. If you are making money, I would bet that you have large capital and you hold long enough which makes you an investor.

Trading has some positives, but not what people might think at first. It helps one understand risk and reward at a deeper level. Understand human nature including (others and one's nature).

The greatest benefit is probably if one learns and becomes successful, he may try managing OPM. He would need marketing skills and spend time building his business. Once he does that he has a 2% cut each year (which is a free bond coupon), a free call option on profits, and a free put on losses.

If fund is say 1B, check how much is a 2% bond and ATM leaps call for 20% participation (price ~0.40*Volty/5). The reward is huge on the education one gets if he translates that to a business of managing OPM. I think it is not easy because the success in managing OPM is not essentially to know how to make money, but to have clients for the fund. You need people writing about you in books, in newspapers, invitation to TV, etc. Nothing to do with knowing how to trade.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from Handle123:

"What makes a master trader? "

I think it no different than waking up each morning, whether one is flipping burgers, CEO of a company or a doctor seeing patients, just knowing you will make money and be able to keep it. It is all about confidence and past years of bringing home the bacon. Yeah, trading hard to break the nut as often the nut is one's brain, but like all jobs, once you learn it, you just going to get better, you start finding small nuances, how to make that one extra tick in day trading or patience of waiting one more day for a swing trade. Little things you just thought was impossible to make sense are giving you images of understanding. Took me three years of everyday staring at the Dome to develop patterns to add to my trading.

My father was in construction, he had no trouble laying block on 100th floor story building and yet he could chisel intricate pieces with rock. I tried laying block up just 7 stories and my knees would shake and all the rock cracked in half for me. I use to ask him how he did what he did, and he would say he just saw it before accomplishing it. My Father was a Master at what he did, he loved doing it, don't think money had much to do in what he did.

I think if you do what you love, it's not a job and the money is Secondary. I love the Game.

I like that. Esp the part about the money. For most, the money is primary. Which is why they fail.

 

[tradingjournals]

Quote from dbphoenix:

... For most, the money is primary. Which is why they fail.

Money in their account should primary. You discussed the reward, what they see is the loss from their account.

 

[tradingjournals]

Quote from tradingjournals:

Trading is not like all jobs. It is not even a job. It is unlike all jobs. At best, trading is a zero sum game, one cannot monetize his work and time. If you are making money, I would bet that you have large capital and you hold long enough which makes you an investor.

Trading has some positives, but not what people might think at first. It helps one understand risk and reward at a deeper level. Understand human nature including (others and one's nature).

The greatest benefit is probably if one learns and becomes successful, he may try managing OPM. He would need marketing skills and spend time building his business. Once he does that he has a 2% cut each year (which is a free bond coupon), a free call option on profits, and a free put on losses.

If fund is say 1B, check how much is a 2% bond and ATM leaps call for 20% participation (price ~0.40*Volty/5). The reward is huge on the education one gets if he translates that to a business of managing OPM. I think it is not easy because the success in managing OPM is not essentially to know how to make money, but to have clients for the fund. You need people writing about you in books, in newspapers, invitation to TV, etc. Nothing to do with knowing how to trade.

Take the example of George. I would bet he is a lousy trader, or not as viewed in the mind of the people. But his traders on the other hand must be good.

 

[Zr1Trader]

Quote from Handle123:

"What makes a master trader? "

I think it no different than waking up each morning, whether one is flipping burgers, CEO of a company or a doctor seeing patients, just knowing you will make money and be able to keep it. It is all about confidence and past years of bringing home the bacon. Yeah, trading hard to break the nut as often the nut is one's brain, but like all jobs, once you learn it, you just going to get better, you start finding small nuances, how to make that one extra tick in day trading or patience of waiting one more day for a swing trade. Little things you just thought was impossible to make sense are giving you images of understanding. Took me three years of everyday staring at the Dome to develop patterns to add to my trading.

My father was in construction, he had no trouble laying block on 100th floor story building and yet he could chisel intricate pieces with rock. I tried laying block up just 7 stories and my knees would shake and all the rock cracked in half for me. I use to ask him how he did what he did, and he would say he just saw it before accomplishing it. My Father was a Master at what he did, he loved doing it, don't think money had much to do in what he did.

I think if you do what you love, it's not a job and the money is Secondary. I love the Game.

Great story and lesson here...thanks for sharing

We all have a common thing to trade and that is our time, so you might as well trade your time doing something that you love doing and master your trade!

 

[Visaria]

Quote from tradingjournals:

Take the example of George. I would bet he is a lousy trader, or not as viewed in the mind of the people. But his traders on the other hand must be good.

George? Soros?

 

[Visaria]

Perhaps the journey to become a master trader never ends....

Read this: Mastery - The Keys To Success And Long-Term Fulfillment - George Leonard

 

[bwolinsky]

Well, the answer, this as to be endowed forever as "Quant Master", entitles me to specific response:

You must have such a rigorous background in statistics, mathematics, quantitative financial acumen, and understanding of econometric modeling that to say all of you are capable of it is the first point I'd make in telling you that that's not the case.

If you aren't bringing the models out, top down, up from bottom and the numbers don't say xx,xxx% over at least two years with <50% dd it's not going to matter either way to point out that there aren't any people but the ones I've seen who are successful who have started from those numbers and built up a 12+ month track record to back it. There's practically nobody like that and the only ones who are do get backing.

Basically, if you can augment several profitable methods with risk management it can be turned into a form of financial science where automation ensures that the executions you do in live trading will bear out, for the most part, the xx,xxx% returns you are estimating but you shouldn't be surprised if an xxx% APR is really xxx%/2 and DD%*2.

This is where Quant Master started, where did you start?

 

[Visaria]

Quote from bwolinsky:


You must have such a rigorous background in statistics, mathematics, quantitative financial acumen, and understanding of econometric modeling ....

Er, I have this and I don't think it has helped me very much in terms of trading, although in no doubt helped me in gaining employment when i first started out. The econometric modelling part is total bs, btw

 

[MarketAddict]

Quote from kut2k2:

Great P&L? Getting written up in one of Jack Schwager's books? Writing a book oneself, even if one has no real-world track record of trading success?

What do you think?

The ability to surf the web and trade at the same time..