What kind of approach can make you INSANELY rich?

[Mtrader]

Seriously ?

You don't need data or statistics to tell you that $5,000 to $5,000,000 in a year is going to involve you taking on serious leverage, serious over-trading, and serious risks.

Please, stop selling people ludicrous dreams that you know 99.9% of people are going to be unable to achieve (and the remaining 0.0.1% only managed a 1000x return only by luck rather than good judgement).

What you are proposing is pure gambling, not even trading.

Tell me how much leverage I take, what's the margin I use? You are the expert. But you can't even answer that question, so how can you calculate my risk? Where are my stops? What is the average win or loss per trade?

Risk depends from 2 things: what you do, and who is doing it.
An idiot can lose everything even in very simple low risk products, while an expert can manage higher risk with much less risk of failure. I have several friends who lost much more in buying and holding stocks then me daytrading the ES.

So you say that I have about 25 years of luck? Only had 1 wipe out in my first years of trading, and after that even NEVER a margin call.

I never said that average Joe can trade this, but that was never the question. And I am selling nothing as I always tell that the majority will never succeed. But it is doable. To know if you can you should try, nobody can tell if you are able or not.

 

[ironchef]

Your posting is correct for over 90% of the people, but completely wrong for the remaining ones.

Yes, Mtrader, as an ex day trader, I represent the 90%. I found in my case longer time frame trades and options were profitable but day trading was not, and I took early retirement from my day job more than a decade and a half ago by the way.

I am not arguing, just that I have not met any day traders that can consistently year after year get outsize returns of >>20% to 25% every year. As one of them, you are my hero and I wish you well!

Regards,

 

[ironchef]

how is a day trader not able to compound?

Because he is living off his profit as a full time day trader. If he does not need his profit to put food on the table, yes he can and should compound (just like some of us here).

Best wishes.

 

[smallStops]

Yes, Mtrader, as an ex day trader, I represent the 90%. I found in my case longer time frame trades and options were profitable but day trading was not, and I took early retirement from my day job more than a decade and a half ago by the way.

I am not arguing, just that I have not met any day traders that can consistently year after year get outsize returns of >>20% to 25% every year. As one of them, you are my hero and I wish you well!

Regards,

Why would you want a trader who is doing well years after years to advertise about it?
Normally, to reach this stage, the trader would have learned quiet a LOT about human nature - such as attracting insecurity by letting other know about what he does; so why would such a trader take a risk that can only lead to additional problems?

 

[ironchef]

Can you explain why he should be a billionaire?
To come to that conclusion you should logically know exactly:

• how long is he already making 20% a month
• how big was his starting capital
• does he always compound
• is the market where he is active in big enough to continue compounding

Each answer to each of these question have an impact on whether he will be/can be a billionaire or not. But you don't have the answer to ANY of these questions. So explain us the magical trick.

From all the people who made that billionaire statement NOBODY ever was able to explain the calculation. Without solid proof not a single statement is valid.

Yes, you are a good day trader and you said getting ~25% a month consistently is what you folks can do.

You can compound meaning you do not have to live on your profit and can plow it back to your capital base, it is easy math. If you start with $2000 today, in 60 months your $2000 will be $1.3 billions. Even if you have occasional draw down of 30-40% (say one or two months a year a reasonable assumption since you folks have good risk management plan), you will still be a billionaire in less than 10 years. The key is compounding and not take money out.

Best wishes.

 

[ironchef]

Why would you want a trader who is doing well years after years to advertise about it?
Normally, to reach this stage, the trader would have learned quiet a LOT about human nature - such as attracting insecurity by letting other know about what he does; so why would such a trader take a risk that can only lead to additional problems?

I don't.

I did not start this thread, I just added my comments so we can look at things from a different angle of more modest goals, instead of trying to figure out how to get outsize returns of >> 200% a year, year after year which in my opinion is very hard to do.

 

[Tim Smith]

instead of trying to figure out how to get outsize returns of >> 200% a year, year after year which in my opinion is very hard to do.

"very hard" a.k.a. "unrealistic"

But of course @Mtrader would rather have us believe that there's nothing wrong with what is effectively pure gambling.

 

[smallStops]

Personnally, but I am talking from an "outsider mindset", if one is trading for their own account and is into really working hard in trading, one should definitively shoot for over 200% a year. Obviously, the issues are different than going for 5%. The final reward has to be worth the gargantuan effort.

 

[O(1)]

Because he is living off his profit as a full time day trader. If he does not need his profit to put food on the table, yes he can and should compound (just like some of us here).

Best wishes.

think I know what you meant now.

cheers

 

[ironchef]

To do it oneself, I don't think it is possible to make even one billion starting with small sum. Yes yes yes, an experienced trader can run up a small account to larger, and to be honest the hardest part is actually taking a 5k account and getting to 100k, but at some point you have to cut back risk. Starting out, often time one might be using $2500 to have in an account to trade one ES till you quad your funds, but at some point you have to increase the $2500 to reasonable about 5-10k, there are so many possibilities of ruin in this game you might be unaware and because of lack of experience, younger trader is walking into quicksand. You pretty much have to open up a firm of either your money you have slaved to build up and have others trade your fund while monitoring them or start a hedge fund and charge much more than most.

Doing it oneself, long term stocks and commodities, but that is not nearly enough, have to be making options plays constantly around the longer term trading, and to do it manually, I think impossible. Day trading has to be automated, so much harder now with watered down ES at $50 a point when it use to be $500 a point, there are too many products to trade while reduces volume on individual instruments, and this causes spreads to be wider and stops to be run with more slippage.

As far as "How much is enough"? Some happy to have $500k and others keep playing to make billions, once your house is paid off, have enough funds to cover you till age 100, anything else to donate to charities. And why not keep trading and racking it up, took you years to get good at it.

But I think at some point, making beyond certain amount would add many problems to one's life than add. Who do you trust? People run to you in hopes of your knowledge rubbing off, you have to have body guards, putting large electric fences to keep people out and for what? If not for ego trip, I would imagine it very lonely at the top.

I agree with you whole heartedly.

Best to you.