What is your religion or lack therof?
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Yes, but you're the spiritual one, leading the way. The arbiter of all that is and isn't. So at one with God that it is easy to mistake you for one another. I'm just following your example, Blessed One.
More cementheaded dribble...
In this world, you see what you believe.
This applies to all senses.
You taste what you believe, hear what you believe, feel what you believe, smell what you believe...ect.
This is the law of perception...a strange law adapted out of reality in order to make real what is unreal.
Perception is the domain of the "devil".
It is impossible not to believe what you see.
But it is equally impossible to see what you do not believe.
Bodies are beliefs.
Perceptions are built up on the basis of experience, and experience leads to beliefs. It is not until beliefs are fixed that perceptions stabilize.
In effect then, what you believe you do see.
Those who believe in the resurrection will see it.
The resurrection is the complete triumph of the unity of God's Sons over the "devil", not by attack but by transcendence. The unity of God's Sons will rise above the devil and all its works, and ascend to the Father and His Kingdom.
Do you believe this?
Blessed are those who have not seen and still believe.
For belief determines perception.
Yet beliefs shift as you adapt and learn within a world of perception. Different experiences lead to different beliefs, and with them different perceptions.
As distortions are introduced, you tire and become strained. And nothing is ever "for sure"...so there is always doubt. And this is painful.
In this way you join the crucifixion of God's Sons, who know not what they do.
I am leading you to a new kind of experience that you will become less and less willing to deny.
Learning from Christ is easy, for to perceive with him involves no strain at all.
Let the Christ in you interpret for you (not the scientists outside you), and do not try to limit what you see by narrow little beliefs that are unworthy of God's Son.
Until Christ comes into His Own, the Son of God will see himself as Fatherless.
We will ascend to the Father together. For you cannot be left out of the resurrection and ascension. Why then exempt yourself from your destiny?
All you can do is waste time. And time is a place of suffering.
Why suffer?
Jesus
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
So, you fucking disgusting hypocrite. You can't speak about what you don't know, huh? Or we can't, but you can?
Tell us, Troll... is it not true that you have converted back and forth between the world's major religions at least twice, and possibly more? Why this need for conversion? What is it that you found lacking in the one when you switched to the other?
Is it the same God you were worshipping in each? Geez, I guess it couldn't have been, since each religion is at least a little different, right? So you have at one point believed in one God story but then switched? What was it that made you switch? Did you have a revelation that the God you were worshipping was not the real God and that there was another bigger God? Did you then believe that bigger God created the other God in which you formerly believed? Or did you completely lose your faith in the one God and did you, at that time, come to believe that your former faith in God #1 was mistaken?
If you converted, what was it that caused you to lose your faith in the first God story? Was it something that happened to you?
Any clarification would be appreciated.
================Quote from overtooled:
absence of evidence IS evidence..
elephants are large heavy creatures. it is reasonable they would leave footprints. i haven't seen any elephant footprints (lately. it's reasonable to conclude "there are no elephants in my neighborhood."
A God would leave footprints too
Wonder if it is maybe on your end Over T;
fingerprints are computerized, tracked,studied much more than feet or elephant feet.
Christian;
old testament reader.enjoyer also
Athiest is like a renter living in an apartment full of renters;
scorning RE investors/hownowners for believing[living]with title deeds.
Now faith is substance [title deed]of things.......;
KJV, Amplified Bible,letter to Hebrews 11;1a/new testament
If i have to go with your elephant idea;
or God/s faith title deed idea, go with God.
murrayTT
No, Zzzz, here is where you are wrong. A man thinking about being a billionaire and what that must be like is faaaaaar from abstract, as billionaires exist inside the very limited construct of reality that you are so railing against. So man's ability to consider what it is like to be another type of person (a type which actually exists & whose actual witnessed experiences are frequently documented for us to 'know' about - lets say Donald Trump) is in no way a corolary to the ability to abstract a concept like god.
You seem to think that it logically follows that anybody with the capacity to think abstractly, or who takes time to contemplate outside the bounds of usual rational thought, will necessarily come to the conclussion that there is a god. That it is the only conclussion to be drawn as a result, because it is the conclusion you have come to & that anybody who does not come to this conclussion, well QED, they are incapable of real abstract thought, are close minded & living a limited life. This is fallacious reasoning, not to mention arrogant. Here you really are employing the very limits of intellect which you argue must be dispensed with to get to the 'truth' as you call it.
As someone who has spent many years immersed in practices targeted at both abstract and boundless thought processes, I have not come to the conclussion that there are gods, nor indeed that there is one god. I have come to the conclussion that human beings are not only capable of the most outrageous mental gymnastics, but also of being thoroughly convinced that whatever it is within their capacity to conjure up in their mind must be plausible, if not down-right true - the more outrageous the more believable. My experience is that the capacity to imagine something to be true, does not necessarily make it so. (btw Isn't this what children are taught as part of becoming functional adults in all other aspects of life except where god is concerned?)
That said, I will never argue against your right to believe whatever you like. I will however argue against any presupposition that only those who do believe in God are using the full capacity of their intellectual & imaginative functions as a point of obviousness. It might be obvious to you, but that just makes you arrogant, not right, and a quick glance around the world will show that it does not necessarily follow that those who believe in god are operating at a higher intellectual or emotional level, with more open minds & more open hearts, than those who do not.
Unless he has experience being a billionaire, of course it is abstract. He takes his own experiences, then imagines on the basis of that. He has had some money, he has purchased things, so he projects in his mind in an abstract manner what it would be like to have a billion dollars, what it would be like to now worry about money, etc.
It is not a concrete reality for him, it is an imagination, though it is possible that one day he may become a billionaire.
Yet his abstract thinking is still within a limited field, as even if he were the wealthiest man on earth, there is a limit to the wealth. No man has infinite and unending wealth, that is not possible, because the nature of this world is finite, not infinite.
Human beings experience limited happiness, limited minds, limited physical properties, limited life, limited love, limited beauty, etc. Everything is this world comes in limited quantities, not Unlimited. God has the exact opposite qualities, as God by definition has no limitations whatsoever.
The abstract thinking is found in the imagination and or meditation of a Personality who is not limited in any manner, does not ever die, was not ever born, who has no limits to intelligence, no limits to power, no limits to life, exists beyond the boundaries of time and space limitations, etc. This Personality is known by many as God.
"I will however argue against any presupposition that only those who do believe in God are using the full capacity of their intellectual & imaginative functions as a point of obviousness."
If you are imagining and thinking abstractly about a Personality with all the qualities as described above, then whatever you call that Personality, that Personality is God.
You must have arrogant vision, if you see arrogance.
It is simply a matter of what people want. If they want limited happiness, they seek it in this world and in mental processes based on limited material conclusion, if they want something unlimited, they think of, dwell in thoughts of, and seek God's Love.
It is not for me to tell people what to seek, but there clearly is a difference between going for the limited or the Unlimited.
It is not a concrete reality for him, it is an imagination, though it is possible that one day he may become a billionaire.
Yet his abstract thinking is still within a limited field, as even if he were the wealthiest man on earth, there is a limit to the wealth. No man has infinite and unending wealth, that is not possible, because the nature of this world is finite, not infinite.
Human beings experience limited happiness, limited minds, limited physical properties, limited life, limited love, limited beauty, etc. Everything is this world comes in limited quantities, not Unlimited. God has the exact opposite qualities, as God by definition has no limitations whatsoever.
The abstract thinking is found in the imagination and or meditation of a Personality who is not limited in any manner, does not ever die, was not ever born, who has no limits to intelligence, no limits to power, no limits to life, exists beyond the boundaries of time and space limitations, etc. This Personality is known by many as God.
"I will however argue against any presupposition that only those who do believe in God are using the full capacity of their intellectual & imaginative functions as a point of obviousness."
If you are imagining and thinking abstractly about a Personality with all the qualities as described above, then whatever you call that Personality, that Personality is God.
You must have arrogant vision, if you see arrogance.
It is simply a matter of what people want. If they want limited happiness, they seek it in this world and in mental processes based on limited material conclusion, if they want something unlimited, they think of, dwell in thoughts of, and seek God's Love.
It is not for me to tell people what to seek, but there clearly is a difference between going for the limited or the Unlimited.
You see there you go again. Drawing conclusions that are obvious only to you, and making absolute statements about the definition and nature of others experience. By what authority do you determine the capacity of experience of your fellow man - the authority of the church, what you read in the bible, your personal experince of the material world.
Don't believe in God = contracted life, limited happiness & mental processes based upon material conclusion. it can't be any other way in your imagining. But show me how this necessarily follows? It might be limited for you, but that doesn't make it so for everyone. Perhaps it is your faculties that are limited?
I am a mother, a wife, a humanitarian, a trader & community volunteer. I know unlimited happiness, unlimited love & unlimited sorrow - often in one day! All of the things you would ascribe to a knowledge of god. I don't even have to have faith to experience it - it just is. The feelings are no less real, and no less abstract just because they are based upon the existence of people I can see. I promise you my life is bound by no limit, in either what I am capable of feeling or creating, just because I do not believe in god. My material life is bound only by the same thing as yours, a material death. Whatever happens after this life is simply not my concern, it has no relevance for me and it makes no difference, for all I need is what I have now, I am happy & I am always striving to expand my life & the lives of others.
I have no expectation nor desire to change your mind - it just doesn't matter. I ask only that you leave out the assertion in your line of argument, that you have cornered the market on universal absolutes about what your fellow man are capable of experiencing based upon whether or not they believe in god. It is hardly christian of you!