What is your religion or lack therof?

Quote from rcanfiel:


The scripture says that few are saved. Scripture paraphrase: "The road to destruction is broad and many who travel it. The road to life is narrow and few are those who find it.

There is no breakdown. Scripture makes it clear that none are deserving of salvation or anything from God.

Paraphrase "The Lord has looked upon the sons of men to see if there is any who do what is right. But there is none righteous, no not one."

That is a human interpretation. As I said, those who do not believe cannot fathom what He has said, and consider it as foolishness.
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Predestination, properly understood, means that it is already known that all will be saved. This is God's Will, and can you change it?

Besides that, time is an illusion, and it can be clearly seen from eternity, that at the end of time, all will be saved.

In fact, time does not end until all are saved.

It is merely impatience that says that God must lose patience and set a deadline any time soon.

There is no deadline.

Time is holographic, and is an illusion, and could never encompass eternity. So basically, time is finished, and all are already saved.

If all are saved, why then do "you" seem to be lingering in it?

For one, it is not really "you" that lingers. But whatever it is, you have a role to play in the salvation of the world. You linger in time until you answer the call and fulfill that role.

"All are called, but few are chosen" means that all are called all the time, but few have made up their minds to answer the call at any given time.

Instead, they actively block their minds from hearing the call. But it is not God who blocks their minds, so much as their idea of God that blocks their minds...so that they do not "see".

"The road is narrow" means that at any given time, few are traveling fully intent upon leaving this world behind.

Usually the number is around one in a thousand, or two in two thousand.

But those who are leaving always leave a trail of clues behind as fulfillment of their part in the overall plan of salvation...which includes everyone.

Those who cannot yet forgive, or will not yet forgive...cannot understand any of this.

Those who won't forgive must see God as unforgiving also...and unable to save all.

Therefor those who won't forgive condemn themselves indefinitely to bodily existence in time...slaves to time. They make wages, die, and return again in another body, to serve time yet again.

And this is the definition of hell. There is no other hell but this.

"You" are IN hell...which is an hallucination of the mind made real by your belief in it...and your belief in guilt and separation.

That is why the choice is always between Heaven or hell.

Does this sound like "foolishness" to you?

Hell is a state of mind in which you believe there can be another "you" besides who you are.

The choice is always between who you think you are, and who you really are.

"Know thyself" truly, and you will no longer be chained down to illusions of yourself.

"The son of man" is a self-concept that is completely false. You may as well say you are "son of elf"...its the same difference.

I say you are the Son of God.

What say "you"?

"All are saved" means that you are saved from the belief that there is more than one Son of God.



Jesus
 
Quote from pamjoey:

Obviously, you dont understand the battle, or you wouldnt refer to it as, silly.

If you dont think that most muslims leaders, are against America and christians, you are mistaken. These people have been fighting us for along time. September 11, is a just one example, of how serious muslims are, about, what they call "Fatah", a holy war. We have been at war with these people, long before this.
Now, after something like 9-11, I don't see how you cannot see, that we are at war, with these people.

At this very moment, we have american troops, fighting and dying in this war.

Silly, pointless, shallow, & factually baseless? You don't have a clue as to what is going on.

I am a veteran myself. You tell, the families, of dead soldiers, that we are not at war with these muslim countries, and see what they say.
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So the US is at war with Indonesia, Morocco, Malaysia, Turkey? You'd better inform the State Department and the Pentagon - this news may come as some surprise to them!
 
Quote from rcanfiel:

No amount of proof will change the mind or heart of most people.
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I can't speak for everyone, but a solid proof will change my mind on pretty much anything.
 
Quote from rcanfiel:


No amount of proof will change the mind or heart of most people.

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Is your version of god so weak and unimaginative that he cant devise a way to show himself that most if not all would believe?
 
Quote from rcanfiel:

No amount of proof will change the mind or heart of most people.
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As an agnostic, even a small bit of *reasoned* proof would raise my interest level quite a notch.

JB
 
Quote from vhehn:

Is your version of god so weak and unimaginative that he cant devise a way to show himself that most if not all would believe?

I don't have a "version of God." He is, whether you or I exist or not. And your response assumes He didn't already do this. And the tone is what I address below.

Quote from Cutten:

I can't speak for everyone, but a solid proof will change my mind on pretty much anything.

Quote from Turok:
As an agnostic, even a small bit of *reasoned* proof would raise my interest level quite a notch.

JB

I would guess that on the most important thing in people's lives (meaning of life, life after death, purpose, etc.), that they spent very little time, if any, in trying to determine whether it is true.

I respect an atheist if he/she spent some serious time objectively examining the claims of biblical Christianity and deciding against it. But most reject it without having a clue what it really means and what it really says and how well it is actually supported for the person who can check the skepticism at the door and put in some objective research.

Far and away the most followed man in history, and far away the best selling book of all time, and the only thing most know about it is what they think it says or what others have told them.

People spend so much time stating who God should be, and what He should do, that they have no concept how tiny, irrelevant and trivial we really are against the backdrop of an ancient and massive universe.

I am willing to dig up and post some items, but I expect it to be hounded by people who dig up some predigested bits from other websites, and do no thinking and analysis on their own. I have done this before, and was quite unimpressed with the responses. I find few can get past their innate preconceived ideas.
 
Quote from rcanfiel:


People spend so much time stating who God should be, and what He should do, that they have no concept how tiny, irrelevant and trivial we really are against the backdrop of an ancient and massive universe.
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All us tiny humans can do to decide if God exists is to match what God says in his supposed word with what is actual reality. In the bible we find lots of ways to help us decide is anything is out there. For instance in Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus reiterates that same message:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says it again:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

It doesn't take much imagination to devise a test to find out if any of these are true. In every case the test fails. The only conclusion a thinking person can come to is either God lied to us or he does not exist.

You have threatened to post your proof many times but always find a way to back out. I for one would love to see any credible evidence that your god or any god actually exists.
 
Why do you take implement such a narrow Judeo Christian focus when it comes to the concept of God?

If we total up all the world's religions, Christianity and Judaism are in the minority of the total religions...

Why do you take the Christian scriptures so literally?

Do you really think you have the correct interpretation or understanding of the original authors?

In our own country, where English has always been the primary language since our Declaration of Independence, less than 300 years ago, we see lots of difference of opinions on what the Constitution (all in English) actually means.

So, why do people think that current scriptures that have been translated from one language to another by different men with different agendas can be evaluated by a purely intellectual analysis, such as you are applying?

"You have threatened to post your proof many times but always find a way to back out. I for one would love to see any credible evidence that your god or any god actually exists."

What exactly would constitute credible evidence for you?

What scientific instruments are capable of measuring God, as God is defined in most scriptures?

Many eastern religions define God as simultaneously both smaller than the smallest and bigger than the biggest...what scientific measurement do you have for that one?

Do you have any scientific instrument that could measure the entire universe at one time? Or one that could objectively measure the totality of the universe?

Yet you expect limited science to provide "credible" evidence for a creator of what you could not even measure, i.e. the physical universe?

Oh, and what is the size, weight, mass, energy of a thought...

Any thought, doesn't matter. What are its physical properties?

What is the mass of an idea?

No, not brain waves, those are not thoughts or ideas, those are electrical impulses.

So if you can't measure thoughts or ideas, how do you know they are "credible?"


Quote from vhehn:

All us tiny humans can do to decide if God exists is to match what God says in his supposed word with what is actual reality. In the bible we find lots of ways to help us decide is anything is out there. For instance in Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus reiterates that same message:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says it again:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

It doesn't take much imagination to devise a test to find out if any of these are true. In every case the test fails. The only conclusion a thinking person can come to is either God lied to us or he does not exist.

You have threatened to post your proof many times but always find a way to back out. I for one would love to see any credible evidence that your god or any god actually exists.
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rcf:
>I respect an atheist if he/she spent some serious time
>objectively examining the claims of biblical Christianity
>and deciding against it. But most reject it without having
>a clue what it really means and what it really says and
>how well it is actually supported for the person who can
>check the skepticism at the door and put in some objective
>research.

Agnostic here rather than atheist, but because of my previous comments I'll certainly respond.

Been there, done that -- I've read the bible from cover to cover more than a dozen times and have committed close to 25 percent of it to memory.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1335734&highlight=bible#post1335734

As a matter of perspective, I (almost without exception) find that it is the "believers" who don't have a "clue what it really means and what it really says". It was the long journey of learning what it "really says" that led me to the conclusion of just how deep the BS really was.

JB

PS: wind up the the troll (not referencing you rcf)
 
"As a matter of perspective, I (almost without exception) find that it is the "believers" who don't have a "clue what it really means and what it really says"

The agnostic/atheist knows what scripture really means and what it really says, and the theists don't according to Bozo...

I guess that "know it all" atheist/agnostic musings can be attributed to either the reading comprehension problems and/or denial of the explicit instruction to read scripture with faith, as faith in God is conveniently missing from the obviously purely intellectual judgments and conclusions...

Turdookie the parrot has memorized 25% of the scriptures that he read, and he know what they really mean and what they really say.

Tooooooo freaking funny....

I am guessing you can't even see the absurdity of your rant...

You are like a life long Cubs fan lecturing a Yankees fan on what it takes to win The World Series...


Quote from Turok:

rcf:
>I respect an atheist if he/she spent some serious time
>objectively examining the claims of biblical Christianity
>and deciding against it. But most reject it without having
>a clue what it really means and what it really says and
>how well it is actually supported for the person who can
>check the skepticism at the door and put in some objective
>research.

Agnostic here rather than atheist, but because of my previous comments I'll certainly respond.

Been there, done that -- I've read the bible from cover to cover more than a dozen times and have committed close to 25 percent of it to memory.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1335734&highlight=bible#post1335734

As a matter of perspective, I (almost without exception) find that it is the "believers" who don't have a "clue what it really means and what it really says". It was the long journey of learning what it "really says" that led me to the conclusion of just how deep the BS really was.

JB

PS: wind up the the troll (not referencing you rcf)
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