Gold is golden. Managing to do some smaller scalps along its route up. $75 realized in scalps so far + the main trade at 1750 showing over $100 on paper. Should I take my $150 profit for the day and walk away? 
What is wrong with this way of thinking?
- Thread starter SimpleTrades
- Start date
You'd be surprised how long a trending channel can sometimes be defended. I've seen the ES honor a channel for the better part of a day before finally reversing near the close. I've rolled my eyes and thought, "There's no way this can work again, it's way too obvious," and it works again, and I miss the profit opportunity because I thought price has gone "too far".
If you're following a trending move and adding (or re-entering for the next push after taking a previous profit), there will come a point when you have a losing trade, but the small loss will be the sign that you've been trading every valid setup. If you're not trading every valid setup along the way and then in frustration finally take a trade, it will probably be that last losing trade when it finally is too late and the trend shows reversal signs. The traders who hesitate and miss out on the solid setups during the meat of a trend, then finally jump in way too late and have one or two losing trades during the early trend reversal phase are the ones who proclaim that trend-following is a loser's game.
A failed breakout of a channel or of a key S/R level along the way is very often a golden opportunity to take the opposing position and I don't hesitate to put on a counter-trend trade when I see that happen.
NoDoji, unbelievable. Once again you appear with screeds about trends and breakouts to encourage a loser to jack away his money! Since you have all the answers (and apparently none of the questions) could we see your trading results? Those who know can tell where you are in your trading, but for the benefit of those who don't know....
In fact I think newbies really ought to ask to see the trading results of anyone who is offering them all the answers. Those who won't be responsible for their thinking deserve everything they get. More liquidity please.
Here is what happened to the last loser she encouraged, only last week:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3342950#post3342950
He lost his money in the oil market and quit trading as a loser, poorer than if he had just taken good advice.
In fact I think newbies really ought to ask to see the trading results of anyone who is offering them all the answers. Those who won't be responsible for their thinking deserve everything they get. More liquidity please.
You keep promising to "shut up" as you call it, but yet again more final appearances than Cher.
Here is what happened to the last loser she encouraged, only last week:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3342950#post3342950
He lost his money in the oil market and quit trading as a loser, poorer than if he had just taken good advice.
Sure - because that is what it is about. Good luck, you'll need it.
Yes, please do before you lose what you can comfortably afford, and perhaps a little more if you discover that you cannot control your gambling. Trading isn't for you - you are not suitable. There will be those who try to lead you further down the road - examine their motives for doing so. Remember later that you were given this advice.Quote from bhardy307: Should I take my $150 profit for the day and walk away?
Yes, your goal is unrealistic. Your thread asks what is wrong with your thinking. Do you really want to know what is demonstrably wrong with it, or are you happy to hear only what you want to be told - ie encouragement. It is your thread, your life, and your decision.
In the Lawrence Harris analysis, there are three groups of traders. Winning traders, utilitarian traders, and futile traders. Winning traders reach their monetary goals and are profitable. Futile traders strive for monetary goals but are not profitable. The third group comprises utilitarian traders, who trade because their external benefit outweighs their financial losses. Having non-monetary goals makes you a utilitarian trader by this definition. What utility is gained in exchange for the net losses jacking away online trading? Why, entertainment, of course.
The vig on FX is more than a bookie or racetrack would dare charge, so why not put your pennies on the ponies? You might have more fun!
No, the loss will be a sign that you cannot recognise when your so called trend has ended.
It also shows that instead of taking another trade in the direction of the trend the correct play is to take a position the other way.
Your loss is both a loss and a missed opportunity.
You could rationalise your loss by calling it a valid setup. Or you could do the work to eliminate the loss.
Losers rationalise losers. (to borrow from Paul Tudor Jones)
Such rationalisations are the behaviour of those who do not learn, cannot be taught, and keep repeating the same experiences. The object of trading is to make as profit as possible, therefore the competent trader does not repeat behaviour which leads to a loss rather than a profit.
Blotto, what makes you think I take any of you seriously? This is an online forum which probably has an overall failure rate of greater than the general public in terms of trading.
I post a thread like this because the "reaction" from all of you generates thought and anlysis inside of me. I became argumentative. That process helps me through the learning process of this difficult business.
I am not losing anything I can't afford.
"Trading isn't for you - you are not suitable."
Gee, thanks! Can I see your numbers? What gives you the authority to judge me?
I post a thread like this because the "reaction" from all of you generates thought and anlysis inside of me. I became argumentative. That process helps me through the learning process of this difficult business.
I am not losing anything I can't afford.
"Trading isn't for you - you are not suitable."
Gee, thanks! Can I see your numbers? What gives you the authority to judge me?
To be honest it is better for you if you don't take anything here seriously. My sincere concern is that people do take what they see here seriously and make substantial financial commitments based on advice they receive here which may be ill suited to their personal circumstances. I don't like to see people get hurt, develop gambling problems, or waste their efforts and resources on what is for them a fruitless endeavour. I think it is cruel how the more impressionable are egged on by friendly encouragement to their ultimate detriment and considerable financial loss.
Regarding what you can afford - I have nothing against anyone having a go with what they can afford. Without such people I could not make profits from the market. Also I believe everyone should have a fair chance to access the market if they can stump up the capital. I would be a hypocrite to state otherwise. However, there is the very real danger that trading becomes a sick obsession for some. In the end I don't think uninformed speculation which ultimately creates losses is a productive use of anybodys time. Time is precious and limited, so in a sense none of us can afford to "waste" it. It is likely that nothing of value is learned while losing money in a failed attempt at speculation, so my advice to a newbie would be to set an "affordable" amount and get it over with as quickly as possible and then move on to the next thing.
As for why I stated you were not suitable. I will give you my reasoning in order that it can stand on its own.
The purpose of trading is to amass a large sum of money. This implies consistent net profitable trading, liquid markets, and correct position sizing. The required approach is a problem solving one - namely to devise a highly accurate methodology. This requires a great deal of time and effort in studying the market and coming to the appropriate conclusions.
Somebody who jumps in to live trading dicking around with micro lots and guessing has one of two flaws. The first possible flaw is that they lack the intelligence to realise what is required - that a trading model be comprehensively developed and tested first, and executed only after the development and testing proves satisfactory. If one lacks basic intelligence, then the problem solving required is out of reach. The second possible flaw is that even though the need for a complete methodology is understood, the practitioner is an action junkie, gambler, or masochist and proceeds on without the necessary ingredients of success. Planning to fail.
The presence of either flaw prevents a successful trading outcome. This analysis gives you a very poor prognosis I'm afraid. Perhaps it can be corrected in your case by logically reasoning and ceasing all live trading until the prerequisites are in place. Most do not do this.
As for my results - I am not advocating any particular methodology or making any claims about my results. My pronouncements stand on logic. If I were proffering a trading strategy or giving specific trading advice (trend following, BOs etc) then I really ought to be providing some proof that not only do I believe in my strategy but that I am executing it and making money. The proponents of textbook generalities cannot do this because the concepts taught in textbooks are not and cannot be significantly profitable. It is quite simple to see who is jacking away time and effort on haphazard hit or miss trading and beliefs completely devoid of any rigorous analytical thought. That they mislead themselves is unfortunate but that they mislead others by preaching what does not work for them is disingenuous and most unkind.
I no longer have any interest in mentoring / teaching others, whether paid or unpaid, as I realise that it is for the most part an impossible mission as those who do not find their own successful path are unlikely to benefit from mentoring. My trading strategy is and shall remain private, although I have discussed some isolated general aspects of it with others in the past. I realise now that attempts to discuss aspects of methodology with others were unwise.
I like to see people get on and do well. Many people who do not have the capacity for trading do have the capacity to do other things which they find personally fulfilling and are incidentally productive. As my Yorkshire friend would say, "horses for courses". Despite whatever desires or fantasies I may have, I do not have the physical characteristics or youth to become an NBA star. No matter how much that career path may be attractive to me. It is utterly out of my reach and likely always was. Does this mean that I cannot go on to great success in another field? Of course not. However if I were to spend my days stalking college basketball try-outs and trying to live vicariously through others without doing anything to further my own realistic potential then this would be a waste of time. As I mentioned earlier a waste of time and a life without purpose is a luxury which I believe none can afford.
In closing I wish you well in whatever it is you choose to do, and I would like you to cultivate the self awareness and courage to accurately appraise your own abilities such that you do not misdirect your efforts towards something which ultimately proves fruitless. Some individuals who embark on trading are simply doomed never to succeed because of their (in)abilities, attitudes, and beliefs. For the weak minded, the gamblers, the easily influenced, the gullible - it can become financially and emotionally unaffordable. I don't wish that sort of carnage on anyone. For those who do not wreck themselves but regularly donate what they can afford - well it is a hobby like any other - be it roulette, the ponies, or a golf membership. These donations from the public are required to pay for the costs of the trading industry. I think it is a rather sad and unrewarding way to use spare time and excess capital, but that is simply my own personal view.
Blotto, I opened up the micro account to blast through a limitation I had while I was working as a proprietary trader. I had difficulty "pulling the trigger". I have solved this problem.
The next task is to design a suitable plan, and I assure you, I have more than enough intelligence to do this.
As for trading with a real account and using real money, I don't believe in the use of demo account unless I am testing a strategy that I will program with the Strategy Trader. The psychology of real money is very different from the psychology of play money, and I can test my strategy with a couple of hundred dollars without feeling any pain.
I don't know exactly what your issues are, but you have been on a rampage lately telling people they aren't suitable. You do realize that your posting history is visible to everyone, don't you?
The next task is to design a suitable plan, and I assure you, I have more than enough intelligence to do this.
As for trading with a real account and using real money, I don't believe in the use of demo account unless I am testing a strategy that I will program with the Strategy Trader. The psychology of real money is very different from the psychology of play money, and I can test my strategy with a couple of hundred dollars without feeling any pain.
I don't know exactly what your issues are, but you have been on a rampage lately telling people they aren't suitable. You do realize that your posting history is visible to everyone, don't you?
It is good that you have a strategy / plan etc. If we go back to your first post on this thread, you asked if there was something wrong with your way of thinking on the numbered points you listed. My reply was that if you are planning for losses and drip feeding new capital into the account monthly you are playing without doing the work to know what is required for profitable trading, without asking the right questions and before getting the answers. And if you were to persist with this you wouldn't get anywhere, except donating to the market and replenishing the account as and when affordable.
Bully for me that people are bothering to look at my posting history! I'm pleased at that. I've sent you a private message with more details of my motivation / issues, but the general gist for other readers:
Over the last month or so I did have an agenda at ET to grab potential suckers / losers and shake them until they realised that they shouldn't be trading live yet and not to follow the other losers who entice them to carry on. This is because I was recently made aware of a serious problem gambler who wreaked all sorts of havoc over years to fraudulently obtain money to pursue his trading fantasy. I was confounded by the level of sickness and self delusion in this individual. I shudder to think how many more there are lurking out there, perhaps only needing a little encouragement from a plausible source to start a nightmare for themselves, friends, family, etc.
I can do nothing about this fact of human nature, and trying to warn newbies at elite not to jack away money in live trading before they are ready falls on deaf ears.
The last person I warned, cl marathon, was not suitable and went on live trading further until he lost what he could lose. No doubt because he was encouraged by that dangerously plausible know nothing NoDoji who told him that he had a "valid technical edge" when his trading was haphazard guesswork. There is no getting away from the fact that she routinely encourages newbies to trade live with this nonsense, to their ultimate financial detriment. Meanwhile she writes screeds of textbook trading advice and gets to play guru in skype rooms. I tell a clueless idiot not to waste his money trading in a live market and I'm set upon by the fan club, including a moderator I might add (who also knows nothing about trading). There is nothing I wish to do about any of this. Self deceit appears pretty universal and I'm deluded to think that my comments here serve their intended purpose of stopping the newbie stepping on the landmine.
I am now back to my own agenda and choose to relieve myself of the self imposed obligation to try to be the lighthouse of Elite Trader. Sailors will crash on the rocks or reach the shores they seek based on their own navigation only, as it should be. Might I suggest ere I depart judicious use of beeswax when sailing so as not to be pulled in by the siren song of false gurus?
Bully for me that people are bothering to look at my posting history! I'm pleased at that. I've sent you a private message with more details of my motivation / issues, but the general gist for other readers:
Over the last month or so I did have an agenda at ET to grab potential suckers / losers and shake them until they realised that they shouldn't be trading live yet and not to follow the other losers who entice them to carry on. This is because I was recently made aware of a serious problem gambler who wreaked all sorts of havoc over years to fraudulently obtain money to pursue his trading fantasy. I was confounded by the level of sickness and self delusion in this individual. I shudder to think how many more there are lurking out there, perhaps only needing a little encouragement from a plausible source to start a nightmare for themselves, friends, family, etc.
I can do nothing about this fact of human nature, and trying to warn newbies at elite not to jack away money in live trading before they are ready falls on deaf ears.
The last person I warned, cl marathon, was not suitable and went on live trading further until he lost what he could lose. No doubt because he was encouraged by that dangerously plausible know nothing NoDoji who told him that he had a "valid technical edge" when his trading was haphazard guesswork. There is no getting away from the fact that she routinely encourages newbies to trade live with this nonsense, to their ultimate financial detriment. Meanwhile she writes screeds of textbook trading advice and gets to play guru in skype rooms. I tell a clueless idiot not to waste his money trading in a live market and I'm set upon by the fan club, including a moderator I might add (who also knows nothing about trading). There is nothing I wish to do about any of this. Self deceit appears pretty universal and I'm deluded to think that my comments here serve their intended purpose of stopping the newbie stepping on the landmine.
I am now back to my own agenda and choose to relieve myself of the self imposed obligation to try to be the lighthouse of Elite Trader. Sailors will crash on the rocks or reach the shores they seek based on their own navigation only, as it should be. Might I suggest ere I depart judicious use of beeswax when sailing so as not to be pulled in by the siren song of false gurus?
Thanks, Blotto, but you can't save anyone from following their own path in life. You know this from your own personal experience, I suspect. You talk very much like my Uncle. He too was a recovered addict. In his case, the addiction was alcohol.
Now, back to trading. I've solved the trigger pulling issue. Now, I need to solve the "sticking to my guns issue". Pulled out of gold too early. Pulled out of the US dollar short at 9750 when bad EU news came in. Both exits were wrong. Up $112 for the day on on a $300 micro account.
Now, back to trading. I've solved the trigger pulling issue. Now, I need to solve the "sticking to my guns issue". Pulled out of gold too early. Pulled out of the US dollar short at 9750 when bad EU news came in. Both exits were wrong. Up $112 for the day on on a $300 micro account.