What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

[murray t turtle]

Not sure what your saying. I guess I'm saying the bible itself is a kind of interpretation and most interpretations are for philosophical sophomores , imo.

My point, and I think one supported by John 3:17 is that some kind of condemnation has already happened and we are already in the proverbial hell........ Unbelief in Christ predates even the garden of Eden ...one of the official narratives as to why we are here...but is rather one of the popular self- deceptions about the genesis of our condition .

Faith? Faith is a seminal primary prehistoric sin of monstrous proportions . Yes it does "make" (not create) the ground/dirt/substance ("real estate") we stand upon as well the mountains we climb...and the book of Hebrews supports me in saying exactly this... as well what Jesus says about faith moving mountains. But mountains and the ground we stand upon are sins that will crumble like a foundation of sand. Knowledge on the other hand is the title deed to heaven not the title deed to hell. There is no faith in heaven and there is no knowledge in hell.

Knowledge is an aspect/quality of Christ while faith is an aspect quality of all that is anti-Christ. We are here because we condemn knowledge (even before the genesis of a material world) and in condemning knowledge we condemn our selves.

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You made some good points , Good 1/200;+ JOHN 3;17;
but NO SIR ,we are not in hell yet , not by a long shot. True ,,sins are like sand; not sure that is why the sand states realty went doWn so much?? That seems more related to excess leVerage + panic selling, some over building..................................................................................................... Its like the letter to the HebreWs 11;1, AMPLIFIED BIBLE says ; '' faith is the title deed'' ,,,

 

[murray t turtle]

Sadly the original manuscript for the Josephus account no longer exists. The only thing we have is a copy, and unfortunately it isn't a zerox copy. It's not impossible that a little precocious, ill legitimate child, was a very convincing, Donald Trump like liar who sucked in a lot of followers, pissed the mainstream religious folks off, and got himself crucified by Romans. Now the part about the water into wine, the three days dead before popping back to life, that's not possible.

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I had some fruit juice turn into wine, summertime, PieZoe,LOL but belieVe it or not ,that was evidence for a new refrigerator LOL-LOL.

Partly true with men= that is not possible; BUT with God all things are possible/God's Word. I've had God save me + ; heal many times, mostly without medicine.I did some times use Vicks Formulae 44, [wild cherry flaVor]about 44% alcohol..................................................................................................................

 

[stu]

My Bible notes passages where differences in manuscripts are found. Studied them. Doesn’t change the narrative or my Faith.

It would no longer be (blind) faith if factual information could alter it.
It becomes something more substantive, non-fictional. You could say, more honest.

You never take up the gauntlet against other religions which by your definition are false but seem to have an enormous interest in Christianity an a God you say doesn’t exist. Interesting.

The title of the thread is "What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?"
It isn't "What is the historical evidence that Allah or Brahma or Buddha lived and died?"

I've never started a thread on religion, only ever responded to a false claim or comment made in one. In this country it is likely going to be about one particular religion.

When you and I exchange posts on religion, you've always made one more than myself. That might suggest you have more of an enormous interest than I. Interesting.

I’ll pray for ya Stu.

I'll think for ya Wallet

 

[murray t turtle]

Imo, Christianity has a lot of merit, but it also has a lot of downside.
The upside is the teachings of decency.
The downside is the shifting of responsibility of ourselves, our shortcomings to "something out there."
For example, the expression "God willing" is an example of shifting responsibility away from ourselves................................

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I see your points, Tmicky; but really the Bible, Christians , orthadox + conservative Jews are real good about teaching personal responsibility. NOT saying all Christians or Jews hit 100%on that; simply commenting on the UP trend.................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Good1]

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You made some good points , Good 1/200;+ JOHN 3;17;
but NO SIR ,we are not in hell yet , not by a long shot. True ,,sins are like sand; not sure that is why the sand states realty went doWn so much?? That seems more related to excess leVerage + panic selling, some over building..................................................................................................... Its like the letter to the HebreWs 11;1, AMPLIFIED BIBLE says ; '' faith is the title deed'' ,,,

Well faith is the foundation of the material worlds. And Jesus let's us know that the foundation of the material worlds is built on sand in a prescient reference to the particulate nature of the material worlds...not only a reference to nano particles but to the fact that faith manipulates the nano particles (changing behavior and appearance ie. wave vs. particle )...and also faith MAKES the particles it manipulates into various objects such as spinning balls in space...as well faith makes the space around the objects. As such faith is variable and sets the stage for human drama having brought the human form out of the same particles as the dust of the earth.

What Jesus is saying when he says this is like building on sand is it is nothing to brag about and IS NOT a real title deed least not a deed to heaven.

There are not three states of being. The world is heaven or it is hell. Your pastors have never offered a reasonable explanation why there is a middle earth for all this novel drama or any moral reason why a good god would put people through a savage testing ground to test worthiness for admittance to heaven . I consider this a blasphemous smear on any good god.

The well paid pastors have been ignoring what Peter said that Jesus came and preached to those in hell and their wages have not produces a viable alternative explanation except, like you, to deny they are in hell ALREADY as a consequence of "unbelief" in Christ....which is the use of faith to make all things Christ into all things anti-Christ. Example : it is faith that turns spirit into flesh . And your pastors have not yet offered reasonable people a good explanation as to why there was enmity between spirit and flesh before but now it is resolved and flesh and spirit are now friends ! A good god killed his sotn to make this odd freindship possible? Blasphemy imo.

The reason this is hell is the binary nature of loyalties. You are either for or against Christ. There is no neutral middle ground. The material worlds are anti-Christ whose world (Christ's world) is spiritual not material (built on nano particles). There is no spiritual hell. It is a reference to all material worlds supported by faith. Neither is there any ground between knowledge and faith. Either you know or you believe (dont know). These states of mind are antithetical to one another (at "enmity"), build completely different worlds, and there is no middle ground.

Indeed faith offers as much of a title deed to hell as is possible. But even a title deed to hell is not a guaranteed one way ticket because the binary nature of the conflict means one side will prevail and faith (and the world it builds) will be subsumed by knowledge and the particles faith uses to make its "real estate" will cease and desist from seeming to exist (go back to where they came from).

Why is faith hellish? Because you can believe whatever the hell you want to be true...including you can believe that living in a world where there is no truth is not hell.

The markets are a good example . Price goes up or price goes down and good luck establishing real estate on narrow channels .Knowledge is the long term trend that's your only friend and worth investing in.

 

[themickey]

If you have ever travelled amoungst religions/churches you would be acutely aware of one thing.
Every denomination/religion/church believe they are on the right track and everyone else has it wrong to one degree or another.
Would that not be a warning signal in itself?
Religions have one thing in common: Dogmatic they are right.
Try that sort of belief in trading and get back to me.

 

[Good1]

I hope I've made clear the insidious (almost evil) characteristics/nature of faith and can't understand why anyone still wears it like a badge of honor!

Faith has no currency in heaven just as ignorance has no coinage in the land of knowledge . It simply does not circulate with those that KNOW being seen as the obvious counterfeit (counterfeit knowledge) that it is.

So why do people still sell the idea that we need faith to get to heaven ? Can I use USD too? What is the exchange rate? Or, is it possible to exchange faith for knowledge? Can I get 153 bits of knowledge for 2,568 bits of faith?

I'm saying faith is utterly worthless in the land of knowledge but in hell you can get whatever you want for it...whatever other believers (those who don't know of its worthlessness) are willing to pay.

There is no exchange rate at the border...no bargaining . one must lay down all faith before entry just as you would lay down all weapons before entering a house of peace.

 

[murray t turtle]

If you have ever travelled amoungst religions/churches you would be acutely aware of one thing.
Every denomination/religion/church believe they are on the right track and everyone else has it wrong to one degree or another.
Would that not be a warning signal in itself?
Try that sort of belief in trading and get back to me.

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Yes its a warning signal not to believe every open/early price; but end of day, end of decade, end of year can be Much More accurate.Mr Mickey you believe everything you believed every thing you said 10 years ago?? That would mean you never grew or made a mistake in 10 year$ ; i percieve you are not that stupid, in markets or out of market$, Thanks for the question............................................................................................

 

[Good1]

Imo, God is the universe, every atom combined, the sheer energy of every atom in the universe is God, that energy is creation which sets up the laws of the universe, He's not some kind of figure sitting on a throne with a book.

Ok this is called pantheism which is not too different from the Judeo-Christian perception (belief) that the material worlds paint an accurate picture of the divine god (made in its image). Paul's gets a lot of mileage from this suggesting that you can learn so much about god by observing its makings that you have no excuse on the judgement day not to conform to everything Paul says about such god. Paul doesn't explain very well why such a god would make an image (like an idol?) of itself and not the real thing...or why the image is a good thing.

I agree it is an image but not the image of a good god...let alone the good god itself . Rather I see it as a mask over the face of a good god that hides its true characteristics all the while representing (misrepresenting) itself as the good god. As such it maligns the good god , misrepresenting at best, smearing (blasphemy) at worst...all the while claiming authenticity despite its nature as IMPOSTER.

So I don't see this view as better than Judeo-Pharisaical-Christianity.

I offer a concept I'll call *reverse pantheism* whereby there is no difference between the image or the thing that makes the image (if you want to think of it as a living being) and that both offer antithetical conclusions about any god that is actually good...so much so that you can look at the image and draw better conclusions about a good god by reversing everything it suggests is true...about God...about reality ...about everything!

So for example if it is always changing we could conclude that a good god never changes. If things are always dying we could conclude that a good god never dies.

The image currently offered by the status quo is so twisted that it's like taking a good god and beating him up and whipping him and disfiguring him and pulling him apart and nailing him to a cross and putting a sign above his head "king of the world". Hell's sacred faith would convince us this is a good thing. So no, I don't see a difference between what your offering and what Christians offer.

 

[Good1]

How insidious is faith? By faith we can be convinced that a god that always has been alive and never changes has changed and died. (And this is somehow a good thing).

This is an example how faith really offers cognitive dissonance and further down that path stark raving insanity.