What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

[themickey]

Imo, Christianity has a lot of merit, but it also has a lot of downside.
The upside is the teachings of decency.
The downside is the shifting of responsibility of ourselves, our shortcomings to "something out there."
For example, the expression "God willing" is an example of shifting responsibility away from ourselves.
Another is "The forgiveness of sins".
But 'Good1's last post above..... mate, life is not that complicated, your post is just garbage imo.
There may be a God, in actual fact I do believe there is a God, but not in the image of Christianity.
Imo, God is the universe, every atom combined, the sheer energy of every atom in the universe is God, that energy is creation which sets up the laws of the universe, He's not some kind of figure sitting on a throne with a book.
Christians and all religons who live by the bible or some other creed get their heads all twisted in a knot of utter bs.

 

[Good1]

Imo, Christianity has a lot of merit, but it also has a lot of downside.
The upside is the teachings of decency.
The downside is the shifting of responsibility of ourselves, our shortcomings to "something out there."
For example, the expression "God willing" is an example of shifting responsibility away from ourselves.
Another is "The forgiveness of sins".
But 'Good1's last post above..... mate, life is not that complicated, your post is just garbage imo.
There may be a God, in actual fact I do believe there is a God, but not in the image of Christianity.
Imo, God is the universe, every atom combined, the sheer energy of every atom in the universe is God, that energy is creation which sets up the laws of the universe, He's not some kind of figure sitting on a throne with a book.
Christians and all religons who live by the bible or some other creed get their heads all twisted in a knot of utter bs.

 

[stu]

Imo, Christianity has a lot of merit, but it also has a lot of downside.
The upside is the teachings of decency.
The downside is the shifting of responsibility of ourselves, our shortcomings to "something out there."
For example, the expression "God willing" is an example of shifting responsibility away from ourselves.
Another is "The forgiveness of sins".
But 'Good1's last post above..... mate, life is not that complicated, your post is just garbage imo.
There may be a God, in actual fact I do believe there is a God, but not in the image of Christianity.
Imo, God is the universe, every atom combined, the sheer energy of every atom in the universe is God, that energy is creation which sets up the laws of the universe, He's not some kind of figure sitting on a throne with a book.
Christians and all religons who live by the bible or some other creed get their heads all twisted in a knot of utter bs.

I totally agree with what you say about Christianity and indeed it extends to most religions. What I think is particularly demeaning to the human spirit is the way religious people are dependent on instruction from the contents of a story book of all things, to understand what is good and true.

I don't know what it is if not superstition, weakness or fear, which means most basic values can't be recognized without some kind of constant reinforcement derived from subjugating oneself to a mythical being.

As well as a passing off of responsibility to an imaginary deity, Christians it seems, have to be told it's wrong to steal or kill etc., as if they have no innate understanding of standards, propriety and decency. Yet remove all religious elements and in no way are those values diminished one jot.

I'm intrigued though why you say "God is the universe".
Surely the universe is the universe, so why give it a different name?
What is it that compels a desire for something more than the universe, which by definition is everything there is?

Why isn't it enough to see that the garden is beautiful (and all powerful for that matter) without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it?

 

[Wallet]

I totally agree with what you say about Christianity and indeed it extends to most religions. What I think is particularly demeaning to the human spirit is the way religious people are dependent on instruction from the contents of a story book of all things, to understand what is good and true.

I don't know what it is if not superstition, weakness or fear, which means most basic values can't be recognized without some kind of constant reinforcement derived from subjugating oneself to a mythical being.

As well as a passing off of responsibility to an imaginary deity, Christians it seems, have to be told it's wrong to steal or kill etc., as if they have no innate understanding of standards, propriety and decency. Yet remove all religious elements and in no way are those values diminished one jot.

I'm intrigued though why you say "God is the universe".
Surely the universe is the universe, so why give it a different name?
What is it that compels a desire for something more than the universe, which by definition is everything there is?

Why isn't it enough to see that the garden is beautiful (and all powerful for that matter) without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it?

Do not steal, but does that apply to fudging a time card for few extra minutes, or slacking off at work while on the clock? Taking an extra something so small an inexpensive that no one else would notice or care?

Jesus even took the matter to one’s heart. Don’t commit adultery, (that one’s pretty rampant today by itself) but He said to lust after another one is guilty.

To hate your brother is murder in your heart.

The purpose of the Law isn’t just that we should live by it but to show us that it’s impossible to live by it. We are all guilty.

 

[DallasCowboysFan]

Do not steal, but does that apply to fudging a time card for few extra minutes, or slacking off at work while on the clock? Taking an extra something so small an inexpensive that no one else would notice or care?

Jesus even took the matter to one’s heart. Don’t commit adultery, (that one’s pretty rampant today by itself) but He said to lust after another one is guilty.

Whenever we hear a message on living well, it generally tells us to set goals for ourselves, live to your full potential, allow time for rest and relaxation etc... So, I have always wondered why God told Moses not to kill, steal, lie and commit adultery. It seems that those values should have been understood by everyone. Life must have been really difficult if God had to remind everyone that this behavior was unacceptable.

 

[themickey]

.....
I'm intrigued though why you say "God is the universe".
Surely the universe is the universe, so why give it a different name?
What is it that compels a desire for something more than the universe, which by definition is everything there is?

Why isn't it enough to see that the garden is beautiful (and all powerful for that matter) without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it?

Well since people roamed the earth, they have been fixated with this mythical creature "God".
What I'm saying, their is no "being" or Figurehead creature.
The thing which create the laws of the universe, sound, gravity, light, speed, forces, electricity, life itself and the creation of more new life, evolution, love, hate, emotions, etc etc is a result of the combination of every moving molecule which is life in itself.
When we die and turn to dust, we're still going to be moving.
The bible is a book of rules, maybe nothing wrong with that, the problem is in worshipping this book and saying it's God's word, having an unbending rigid interpretation, that's what causes huge problems in society.

 

[themickey]

I used to be a Christian once, well thankfully thru massive trauma in my life woke up to its bs.
So I physically ripped the bible into pieces, there is no magic in the bible, I wasn't struck dead.

 

[stu]

Do not steal, but does that apply to fudging a time card for few extra minutes, or slacking off at work while on the clock? Taking an extra something so small an inexpensive that no one else would notice or care?

Well, does it?
Can a religious person muster up integrity in its own right, without Bible Jesus?
Doing things because they are right.
Not because an imaginary God threatens hell if they don't, lowering the morality bar at the same time.

Jesus even took the matter to one’s heart. Don’t commit adultery, (that one’s pretty rampant today by itself)

But this is supposed to be a Christian country! Maybe that's the problem. Too much religion and too many religious people using religion to excuse themselves.

To hate your brother is murder in your heart.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

Hate is a cornerstone of Bible Jesus.

The purpose of the Law isn’t just that we should live by it but to show us that it’s impossible to live by it. We are all guilty.

If the purpose of "the Law" is to show that it is impossible to live by it, then accepting it can only ever be the means by which you excuse yourself from it.
That is simply granting yourself a license for self exculpation.

And no, "we" are not all guilty because Christians have decided they are.

 

[stu]

It seems that those values should have been understood by everyone. Life must have been really difficult if God had to remind everyone that this behavior was unacceptable.

A benevolent God making life really difficult? Doesn't jive.

Values which should be understood by everyone were always there so are reminders from fictional characters in an ancient story book of religious threats and dubious morality really the way to go?

With God and Moses being only fictional narratives, and values being derived from basic humanity, surely it's more reasonable to say life should be expected to be how it actually is.

 

[murray t turtle]

I actually doubt this happened as stated by Paul who is the only witness of the occasion that later took to pen to tell about it.

The story suggests that Jesus used force to change someone's mind. It would have us believe that someone able to open ones eyes...especially the eyes of the willing...is now making the eyes of the unwilling to go blind.

That goes against the method of working only with those whose hearts are willing whereas Saul was most unwilling. This goes against the idea of only doing good through miracles rather than use miracles to do harm (knock off horse and make go blind) when it would have been just as easy to force a change in Saul's belief system using the same power used to open the eyes of the physically blind .

As such Paul would probably be the first person in history who achieved enlightenment having not prayed for it...and whilst working so hard to avoid it.

We are not required to believe it even by Paul's own admonitions that deceptive forces may appear themselves as angels of light or by extension, as Jesus himself.
(Paul's original intention) but more effectively working from the "inside".

%% I see your points G1; but Saul/Paul was a serious student of the scriptures, so I see no problem with God knocking a hardhead/church wrecker off his horse, to get his attention ......................................................................
PS God's idea + Word idea also includes a policeman/armed forces sometimes; so your force comment can be limited in a real sense. And it was a temp blindness;God healed him also, no doctors/gov health care needed.LOL I was surprised to hear my bro pray , he told God he was so hardheaded, God may have to use a 2X4 X8 on him .................................................................................................................., Thanks