What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?
- Thread starter OddTrader
- Start date
%%Obviously you're a man of big Faith!
I dont know about that, thanks O Trader. I read about 31/+ chapters of Proverbs per 31 days.......; not a prediction. LOL
Faith is the title deed- Hebrews 11;1 a ,Amplified Bible
I would have agree with Hitchens that the fraud is not whole cloth, but based on some character. But while Hitchens can only imagine a deluded character, I can imagine Jesus was a successful Eastern practitioner of the advaita line of teaching/reasoning. Having returned to his native land after much traveling absence, he proposed to use the current Jewish base of literature, and more, to lead them to another way of thinking. Christianity, as it was started by mostly Jews, forces a fraud upon all that Jesus said and did, in order to make him the messiah. And if messiah, what purpose the crucifixion? So, force a comparison to the passover story to Jesus' demonstration. And it all goes down hill from there.
"Give no thought for the morrow".
Right, Hitchens, not good advice for anyone except those moving very close to what Jesus knew, experienced, and taught.
Modern examples of this are anyone going into "samsara", in meditation, and includes Ramana Maharshi.
A middle road approach was demonstrated by Nisargardatta Maharaj.
Generally speaking, planning for the future does not mix well with what these gurus say is available...NOW.
But Hitchens, remember, depending on the scale of the fraud, we cant trust, whole cloth, anything they say Jesus said, including this. Context matters too.
Right, Hitchens, not good advice for anyone except those moving very close to what Jesus knew, experienced, and taught.
Modern examples of this are anyone going into "samsara", in meditation, and includes Ramana Maharshi.
A middle road approach was demonstrated by Nisargardatta Maharaj.
Generally speaking, planning for the future does not mix well with what these gurus say is available...NOW.
But Hitchens, remember, depending on the scale of the fraud, we cant trust, whole cloth, anything they say Jesus said, including this. Context matters too.
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Actually,Good 1 the comparison of Christ with the passover lamb- books could be written about that Bible based comparison.+ have.Bible teaches plans -Proverbs is full of plans; best to read multiple translations... thought for morrow
As far as the crucifixion, good question .Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures , was buried, rose again the 3rd day, according to the scriptures. [1st Cor 15, Bible]
Thanks; almost all or all the Bible was written by Jews, inspired by God.
Likewise, the interpretation of everything Jesus said or did is spun according to Jews. Passover lamb is their interpretation for a simpler lesson.
Paul used the term "Juadaizer" purjoritively. With good reason if you first understand that what Jesus taught, and what the Jews believed were incompatible. That same incompatibility extends to this day, within Judeo-Christianity, which distances itself not only from Eastern Orthodox, but all things Eastern, including, and perhaps especially, Jesus' own brand of Advaita. In using the term, Paul, the former Pharisee, does not absolve himself from the fact he was the greatest Juadaizer them all...stressing Jewish scripture beyond its limits, to fit the round Jesus into the square hole in his heart.
"Have no thought for the morrow".
Whether he said it, we don't know. The context matters. It could mean don't be such busy bodies that you neglect eternal salvation. It could mean do only what is absolutely necessary to maintain your body or your family.
But speaking from experience, if you are called, this is how you answer. It is the more natural thing to do when something about your human existence dies. Do the dying care about tomorrow? I speak from experience, things that were very important to you could suddenly seem trivial.
If you are called, and if you let yourself be carried away completely by this inclination, who knows what would happen, and it can be scary. I responded cleverly, acting as if I was following that call, just enough to stop the out of control feeling, but convince myself I was answering the call. I became a Judeo-Christian, and the extremely compelling part of the call subsided.
Generally speaking, if you are called, you answer. You WILL do something, even if it means sitting down and do absolutely nothing as the rats search your pockets for crumbs.
Yes, some people have done this, including Ramana Maharshi, at the age of 17. The only reason he ended up with an ashram is because others took it upon themselves to preserve his person and his teachings for themselves and for posterity.
Whether he said it, we don't know. The context matters. It could mean don't be such busy bodies that you neglect eternal salvation. It could mean do only what is absolutely necessary to maintain your body or your family.
But speaking from experience, if you are called, this is how you answer. It is the more natural thing to do when something about your human existence dies. Do the dying care about tomorrow? I speak from experience, things that were very important to you could suddenly seem trivial.
If you are called, and if you let yourself be carried away completely by this inclination, who knows what would happen, and it can be scary. I responded cleverly, acting as if I was following that call, just enough to stop the out of control feeling, but convince myself I was answering the call. I became a Judeo-Christian, and the extremely compelling part of the call subsided.
Generally speaking, if you are called, you answer. You WILL do something, even if it means sitting down and do absolutely nothing as the rats search your pockets for crumbs.
Yes, some people have done this, including Ramana Maharshi, at the age of 17. The only reason he ended up with an ashram is because others took it upon themselves to preserve his person and his teachings for themselves and for posterity.
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So the simplest lesson, in my view, is Jesus was demonstrating to his core followers, the effects of following his teachings.
One effect is no fear.
Another effect is no pain.
The no pain lesson was lost on the passover type of interpreters, who felt that the son was being sacrificed/punished for the sons/sins of others. Punishment involves pain, and so, many Judeo-Christians believe a possible pain component is/was necessary...even though they could not tell you how important that component would be within their rather Jewish interpretation.
So there are assumptions about the crucifixion that really rather blaspheme the lesson taught. The idea of no pain is critical to an understanding of Christ, and only ignored by gluttons for punishment.
If Jesus was NOT being punished, for himself or anyone else, Judeo-Christianity starts to fall apart.
So why do we call it the Bible?
The Old Testament is based on the Jewish Torah.
Christianity is based on the New Testament/Jesus and his Disciples.
So, why do we call it the Bible?