What is the economic rationale for allowing the Fed to create trillions of dollars out of thin air

[Sig]

Today as an experiment I decided to jump on a thread full of unsubstantiated assertions and attempt to counter that with quantitative rigor, point out obvious logical fallacies, or appeal to common sense counterexamples. It was fun, although as you can see clearly a “whack a mole” game. Post after post was debunked with actual data, with generally only “you’re wrong because I think you are” style responses if any, only to have another poster come on with an even weaker assertion, completely ignoring the fate of the previous posters. I’d love to do a study of this type of thing, it really does show that the more evidence against an unsubstantiated position is pointed out, the more those advocating for it dig in their heels, which is a nonobvious response to me at least.
This concludes my experiment, I’ll leave you all to wilder and even less fact based conspiracy theories and only hope that you take my advice to take even one macro course. Thanks for the fun day though!

 

[galvinlee888]

were still in the same financial crisis but its being masked by the trillions the fed has printed over the last 5 years or so....and if were NOT in a financial crisis any longer why are rates still at 0%, they haven't moved up in nearly 10 years!!!! And why are all other central banks around the world stimulating their worthless economies with more stimulus and low interest rates???

Why you so agitated with this massive QE?

Let me guess, you miss the rally from the bottom in 2008? You miss this (or you short the market) because you think you are smarter than the Fed and the market should collapse??

 

[piezoe]

Today as an experiment I decided to jump on a thread full of unsubstantiated assertions and attempt to counter that with quantitative rigor, point out obvious logical fallacies, or appeal to common sense counterexamples. It was fun, although as you can see clearly a “whack a mole” game. Post after post was debunked with actual data, with generally only “you’re wrong because I think you are” style responses if any, only to have another poster come on with an even weaker assertion, completely ignoring the fate of the previous posters. I’d love to do a study of this type of thing, it really does show that the more evidence against an unsubstantiated position is pointed out, the more those advocating for it dig in their heels, which is a nonobvious response to me at least.
This concludes my experiment, I’ll leave you all to wilder and even less fact based conspiracy theories and only hope that you take my advice to take even one macro course. Thanks for the fun day though!

Sig, bless your heart. These lunatics don't actually read what you post, and if they do, they are incapable of understanding it.

 

[usrx201]

To keep non-bondolders, the majority of Americans not in the public sector from rioting and cities burning on fire, etc. Supposedly the 60+ trillion in unfunded liabilities will be recirculated by the debt paying public for the next few hundred years assuming it doesn't all collapse by 2019.

 

[loyek590]

we fear what we don't understand and we hate we fear

I don't understand how you can create money out of thin air, so I hate those that do it

(and I fear someday they may just simply run out of thin air)

 

[der_kommissar]

Today as an experiment I decided to jump on a thread full of unsubstantiated assertions and attempt to counter that with quantitative rigor, point out obvious logical fallacies, or appeal to common sense counterexamples. It was fun, although as you can see clearly a “whack a mole” game. Post after post was debunked with actual data, with generally only “you’re wrong because I think you are” style responses if any, only to have another poster come on with an even weaker assertion, completely ignoring the fate of the previous posters. I’d love to do a study of this type of thing, it really does show that the more evidence against an unsubstantiated position is pointed out, the more those advocating for it dig in their heels, which is a nonobvious response to me at least.
This concludes my experiment, I’ll leave you all to wilder and even less fact based conspiracy theories and only hope that you take my advice to take even one macro course. Thanks for the fun day though!

Cool...sounds like you are desperately in need of an ivory tower to post from.

 

[der_kommissar]

Inflation is determined by quantity of money and velocity. The consumer, business and financial sector underwent a great deleveraging post crisis which dropped velocity off a cliff. Money was not circulating in the economy. Rather it was used to pay back debt. More loans paid back then made equals shrinking money supply and falling prices on top of it. Fed engaged qe programs to prop asset prices. While saving the banks, they also indirectly buoyed stock markets and real estate which most consumers rely on heavily for investment and retirement.

This goes against every notion of a free market economy and Keynesian economics. The argument was to prevent the next Great Depression. While it's true, a Great Depression would have ensued, nothing can stop that now. Offshoring has decimated American industry and employment. That gaping hole was replaced with private and public sector debt. Fed is just papering over a fundamental problem that was created a long long time ago.

Good post. Agree on all counts and the "rub" is that the reflation of asset prices has major demographic implications. Two equity bubble/busts (2000 & 08) have also put a dent into the boomer's retirement plans (i.e. the typical entry/exit into the workforce that existed in prior generations). Clearly ZIRP isn't doing anybody favors either...Even if you are some CB lackey (like a few of the knobs on this thread), it would be hard to argue that the benefits of ZIRP outweigh the cons, in aggregate. It was intended, or so they said, to be an "emergency measure" (i.e. rates would be normalized in a reasonable measure of time...not 84 months!).

Anyhow, you know all of this, but I do get tired of the usual hacks who pretend that there is some arcane rationale for all of this that the "peons" cannot comprehend.

 

[der_kommissar]

Why you so agitated with this massive QE?

Let me guess, you miss the rally from the bottom in 2008? You miss this (or you short the market) because you think you are smarter than the Fed and the market should collapse??

Because he knows that payback is a bitch.

 

[loyek590]

Good post. Agree on all counts and the "rub" is that the reflation of asset prices has major demographic implications. Two equity bubble/busts (2000 & 08) have also put a dent into the boomer's retirement plans (i.e. the typical entry/exit into the workforce that existed in prior generations). Clearly ZIRP isn't doing anybody favors either...Even if you are some CB lackey (like a few of the knobs on this thread), it would be hard to argue that the benefits of ZIRP outweigh the cons, in aggregate. It was intended, or so they said, to be an "emergency measure" (i.e. rates would be normalized in a reasonable measure of time...not 84 months!).

Anyhow, you know all of this, but I do get tired of the usual hacks who pretend that there is some arcane rationale for all of this that the "peons" cannot comprehend.

the rationale is that the peons have been dead wrong for so long. Like any bear, they will eventually be right (never wrong often early) but I've been hearing them crying wolf and telling me the sky is falling for a long long time.

like the frog in the pot I never notice the water is slowly boiling. Everyday every dollar in my account is worth less than what it was yesterday, but still somehow it buys more.

Ordinary poor people today live a life of luxury our rich fathers could only dream of. Is it all due to QE and the fed?

 

[der_kommissar]

the rationale is that the peons have been dead wrong for so long. Like any bear, they will eventually be right (never wrong often early) but I've been hearing them crying wolf and telling me the sky is falling for a long long time.

like the frog in the pot I never notice the water is slowly boiling. Everyday every dollar in my account is worth less than what it was yesterday, but still somehow it buys more.

Ordinary poor people today live a life of luxury our rich fathers could only dream of. Is it all due to QE and the fed?

Incoherent, per usual...and nice twist connecting "peon's" to "bears", but since you went down that path, I'd love to hear how "wrong" anyone could be when we've had 2 pretty significant equity bubble/busts in less than 20 years (we'll see where we're at with this current one)...

The only way those dollars in your account buy more than yesterday is if you're living under a bridge and shopping at the Salvation Army...