What is the best way to deal with suicide bombers?

rs7 · Mar 31, 2003

Quote from rs7:

Wild's posts have caused me to suffer from AIPS* and one of the side effects is disrupted sleep patterns.

RS7

*Annoying Internet Post Syndrome

Out of the market today. So I dropped by my personal physician's office to see what he could do for me about my acute AIPS attack.

For anyone suffering from AIPS as I have been, I will share the 40 solutions recommended to me.

1. Never read a cut and paste.
2. Put MSFE/Wild on ignore list.
3. Never read a cut and paste.
4. Never ever read anything in any form from The Guardian.
5. Go Blind....it's less annoying.
6. (this one's tough)..Cut the cord.
7-40. Never read a cut and paste.

freealways · Mar 31, 2003

(I am assuming that Alfonso lives in the US)

Alfonso, considering the fact that you don't agree with the US's actions perhaps the best thing to do is to renounce your citizenship and move elsewhere where you are more happy.
The world is your oyster.

It makes me sick to hear all those foreign freaks continuously criticising the government yet desperately wanting to live in the USA.

freealways

alfonso · Mar 31, 2003

Quote from freealways:

(I am assuming that Alfonso lives in the US)

Alfonso, considering the fact that you don't agree with the US's actions perhaps the best thing to do is to renounce your citizenship and move elsewhere where you are more happy.
The world is your oyster.

It makes me sick to hear all those foreign freaks continuously criticising the government yet desperately wanting to live in the USA.

freealways

Well freebie, be sick no more. Neither do I live in the US nor do I have any wish to.

However, summon all those vast reserves of brain power for a moment, and imagine that even if I did, why in the world would I choose to renounce my citizenship for disagreeing with a policy decision of my government?

Your suggestion is simply absurd! (Although I'll give you an A+ for consistency -- it's just as absurd as anything else I've ever read from you.)

freealways must mean free from having to think!

Corso482 · Mar 31, 2003

Quote from rs7:

Of course there is a solution. Just because we haven't found one that works, doesn't mean it isn't there.

How about this? (not saying I advocate it....just an example of what could or might work).

Suicide bombers have their families financially compensated by terrorist groups and apparently now by terrorist states.

Make the families legal coconspirators. A suicide bomber does his act, his family goes to prison. Perhaps that would slow them down.

Or capture an unsuccessful suicide bomber, and sentence him (or her) to detonate themselves in a safe place. (Not for them). Thus heightening the "risk" if not successful (which many are not). Having them do it in front of their families might add a nice touch.

Or capture those who attempt to be suicide bombers, and send them to New Jersey and tell them this is really Paradise....go find 72 virgins. Then send 'em back to tell their pals.

Or lock them in a room with Wild for a month. Really send them a message.

Somehow, a real solution will come to be realized. Of course, nothing can ever be 100%. A President can still be assassinated, despite the highest degree of security so far possible. But the heightened efforts have certainly cut down the attempts since Reagan was shot. Down to zero so far. and hopefully forever.

Israel already deports and/or demolishes the houses of family members.

rs7 · Mar 31, 2003

Quote from Corso482:

Israel already deports and/or demolishes the houses of family members.

Yep, they really should be our mentors in affairs in which we are inadequate. They are our allies. The big egos in the Pentagon seem not to wish to take advantage of what should be our best asset in regards to terrorism, intelligence in the arab world, and desert/guerilla/(Islamic) warfare.

As I had mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, the Israelis could not understand how we did not consult with them in our failed attempt to rescue the Iran hostages. Their rescue at Entebbe was really so much more difficult, considering the range and logistics for them at that time.

We did not take a page from their playbook as in when they bombed the nuclear facility in Baghdad. No warning. No letting Saddam get prepared. And guess what, no retaliation either. Because they understood they were dealing with basically impotent cowards. Isreal wanted to keep them impotent, and they accomplished in one night what we are now ostensibly trying to accomplish with a few hundred thousand troops, and a whole shitload of billions of dollars out of our already unbalanced budget.

And if I remember correctly, our military was stumped as to how the Israelis were able to run that mission to Baghdad. The F-16 fighter jets were, according to our geniuses, not capable of making such a sortie. Of course, the Israelis just modified them so they were viable airplanes.

Now we wonder how to deal with suicide bombers. As Corso points out, Israel has a policy. So should we.

But sadly, we went into this thing not expecting this. How the hell was this possible? How badly can we have planned this campaign? It certainly wasn't because we didn't have time!!

We had plenty of time to let Saddam plan.

I favor deposing Saddam. And I back our military 100%. I want this thing to be over with as little collateral damage as possible. And with NO more American blood spilled (seems highly unlikely). However I cannot see how we got into this in the manner we did.

But we are there. So why not use the finest intelligence we have access to? Is it about ego? Why are we not doing what I have thought all along.....say to Israel: "Here's our objective, how do we accomplish it? What will it take?"

We should have done this long before launching this campaign. But now that we are there, is it too late? Is Tommy Franks (and Powell) really so well studied in the culture of Iraq (and the arab mentality) that we can just ignore our ally that has been virtually at war with the entire arab world for 55 years? And despite this, there are arabs, Palestinians and adherents to all different religions living together in peace and (until very recently) prosperity within Israel's borders. How?

I will say this. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are NOT the guys that I am most comfortable with running this campaign. I sincerely believed our greatest (domestic) card to play was Powell. But he seems to have gotten caught up in the plan to abandon diplomacy and fight a war we seem not completely prepared to fight.

I really hope I am wrong.

We seem to not be using our resources wisely. I have a very personal stake in this too. My son is going into the Navy on June 30. He will be at the Nuclear Propulsion School for almost three years. Until the last few days, I thought this war would be irrelevant to his service. How could this possibly go on that long? But now I am not so sure. And the thing is, if it does go that long....it won't be just him that will be in harms way. It could be all of us!

Peace Soon!
Rs7

OPTIONAL777 · Mar 31, 2003

Quote from rs7:

Yep, they really should be our mentors in affairs in which we are inadequate. They are our allies. The big egos in the Pentagon seem not to wish to take advantage of what should be our best asset in regards to terrorism, intelligence in the Arab world, and desert/guerrilla/(Islamic) warfare.

As I had mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, the Israelis could not understand how we did not consult with them in our failed attempt to rescue the Iran hostages. Their rescue at Entebbe was really so much more difficult, considering the range and logistics for them at that time.

We did not take a page from their playbook as in when they bombed the nuclear facility in Baghdad. No warning. No letting Saddam get prepared. And guess what, no retaliation either. Because they understood they were dealing with cowards.

And if I remember correctly, our military was stumped as to how the Israelis were able to run that mission to Baghdad. The F-16 fighter jets were, according to our geniuses, not capable of making such a sortie. Of course, the Israelis just modified them so they were viable airplanes.

Now we wonder how to deal with suicide bombers. As Corso points out, Israel has a policy. So should we.

But sadly, we went into this thing not expecting this. How the hell was this possible? How badly can we have planned this campaign? It certainly wasn't because we didn't have time!!

We had plenty of time to let Saddam plan.

I favor deposing Saddam. And I back our military 100%. I want this thing to be over with as little collateral damage as possible. And with NO more American blood spilled (seems highly unlikely). However I cannot see how we got into this in the manner we did.

But we are there. So why not use the finest intelligence we have access to? Is it about ego? Why are we not doing what I have thought all along.....say to Israel: "Here's our objective, how do we accomplish it? What will it take?"

We should have done this long before launching this campaign. But now that we are there, is it too late? Is Tommy Franks (and Powell) really so well studied in the culture of Iraq (and the Arab mentality) that we can just ignore our ally that has been virtually at war with the entire Arab world for 55 years? And despite this, there are Arabs, Palestinians and adherents to all different religions living together in peace and (until very recently) prosperity within Israel's borders. How?

I will say this. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are NOT the guys that I am most comfortable with running this campaign. I sincerely believed our greatest (domestic) card to play was Powell. But he seems to have gotten caught up in the plan to abandon diplomacy and fight a war we seem not completely prepared to fight.

I really hope I am wrong.

We seem to not be using our resources wisely. I have a very personal stake in this too. My son is going into the Navy on June 30. He will be at the Nuclear Propulsion School for almost three years. Until the last few days, I thought this war would be irrelevant to his service. How could this possibly go on that long? But now I am not so sure. And the thing is, if it does go that long....it won't be just him that will be in harms way. It could be all of us!

Peace Soon!
Rs7

Perhaps they don't want to fuel the other Arab countires by including the Israelis in the "coalition of the willing."

freealways · Mar 31, 2003

So why not tell us where you come from so that we can understand where you are coming from (and perhaps make some allowances for you having been brainwashed) Alfonso ?

freealways

freealways · Mar 31, 2003

Alfonso said : " .......................... even if I did, why in the world would I choose to renounce my citizenship for disagreeing with a policy decision of my government?"

Well if it is a big issue you could make a stand out of principle.

Stand out from the wishy washy plebs who are making noise just for the hell of it (or for any number of other reasons).

freealways

hapaboy · Mar 31, 2003

IMHO, Franks and Co. are probably getting a lot of advice from the Israelis that isn't being reported for obvious reasons.

Whether or not Franks is willing to heed that advice is another matter.

rs7 · Mar 31, 2003

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Perhaps they don't want to fuel the other Arab countires by including the Israelis in the "coalition of the willing."

Of course this is true. But there are "back channels".

Quote from hapaboy:

IMHO, Franks and Co. are probably getting a lot of advice from the Israelis that isn't being reported for obvious reasons.

Whether or not Franks is willing to heed that advice is another matter.

"Probably getting a lot of advice" seems to make sense, and of course you are correct in the reason they would not make this a public issue. Same as Optional's observation.

But the probability of Franks heeding the advice seems unlikely, if he is getting it. This campaign has suffered surprises that should never had been.

The entire "style" of this war ("style" seems a strange term to use in this context) just doesn't have that Israeli "touch" to it.

I don't know how old you guys are, so I don't know if you remember the 6 day war or the Yom Kippur war. But I do remember. And this has a whole different feel. This really does have more of a Vietnam feel to it. Again, I hope I am wrong.

Revealing strategy to the world is not how Israel went 4 for 4. (at least I am young enough to NOT remember the first 2).

When we invaded Normandy on D-Day, not even troops that were involved knew the plan until they were on the landing crafts. But when we fought in Vietnam, everyone did. Just like now. Advertising pays in almost everything. But not in Strategic planning in a war. Not in tactics, which we hear about 24 hours a day on the cable news channels.

If there were misdirection in these military briefings, that would be one thing. But this is not the case. We are listening to "reassurances". Seems awfully political to me.

Meanwhile, let's just win it somehow, and QUICKLY!!

Rs7