What is the best country to leave the US for?

[rs11942]

Quote from fatrat:

I'm not sitting in liberal arts classes listening to professors tell me what the nature of affairs is. I'm in graduate school in a quantitative field (think lots and lots of math). When I look at the numbers and growth, it becomes painfully obvious to me that the era of American dominance is over. What's left here are politicians who've distanced themselves from the founding principles (the constitution) and are fighting over the last remnants of prosperity that are left. I'm content to let these idiots squabble over the crumbs while I go in search of the bigger pie.

Why would I want to start a business and innovate in this country when Charlie Rangel in congress is thinking about putting another 4% tax on my income (which is above $150,000/yr)? There's no logic in staying in a country that doesn't look at these sorts of ideas with hostility. The fact that the impoverished and uneducated masses are voting for and propping up more and more buffoons like Rangel is a sign to me that it is time to jump ship.

If you aren't looking at the facts and making the assessment that you should jump ship, you're just misguided. It has nothing to do with what academia is saying. I find it absolutely amazing how many of you are anti-university. It's as if you all flunked out of a low-tier liberal arts college and never went through an engineering/science program anywhere worthwhile.

Blind patriotism makes no sense. It's analogous to staying long in Enron stock instead of switching to cash.

While I am patriotic, and also am sick of taxes and moronic statements from media seeking politicians that will say anything to get air time (even though they know windfall profit taxes, socialized systems and the like break all of the laws of successful economic history) I am still intrigued by your arguments.

I want to be just like every other flamer on here and call you a pinko, yet your arguments, while I don't agree with all of them, don't ring like those of a crackpot. You come across as a serious person with ideas that I just don't necessarily agree with. So, respectfully,

I would really like to know if you have thoroughly thought about things like the value you get living in the U.S. from things like developed infrastructure, proximity of high level health care (i.e. how far is the nearest ultrasound machine, MRI machine etc.) proportion of roads that are lit at night, mean average down time of electrical service, chlorine content of tap water, etc. These are real considerations and ones that are tough to quantify without making the mistake of moving first.

Beyond the infrastructure issues, i would appeal to your financial/technical sensibilities as well. Is there not a net present value to the lower likelihood of political instability of living in the U.S.? A net present value that you would be willing to pay an insurance company for insurance against armed militia taking all that you have worked for from you because at that particular moment he happens to have a larger gun than you?

Not that all non-U.S. countries are unstable, but statistically, the risk is just a little bit higher. And us actuarial/financial types know there is a value to that slight difference. And then take that slightly lower probability of, let's call it, "general instability," across all of the various things that matter to you, and doesn't it at least add up to the taxes that you must pay in the U.S. that exceed your threshold of tolerance? know what I mean?

I know the label put on the taxes are annoying...for example I have never quite understood why, with no children, I must pay upwards of 7k a year in school taxes?? why isn't that taxation without representation? Any lawyers on here know the answer to that one? But in total, as a thinking person who disagrees with a tax labeled in that way, I can be honest with myself and at least admit that having a good school system in my town does help enhance my property value, so there is some value I receive from the taxes I disagree with.

Does any of this resonate? Not that I care really what you end up doing, I am just curious if you assigned value to the types of things I mention and if your discontent supercedes this value?

 

[Eddiefl]

Quote from fatrat:

As soon as I find a place that is less tyrannical than this place. Europe is out of the question. The EU is governmental evil. Mexico and Canada will be victims of the NAU.

The leftist-laziness of non-Americans in resisting tyranny has spread to Americans, which is why our country is in such dire straits. That, and the fact that there has been an ongoing program to dumb down people and make them numb to politics, which is how you get people like Eddiefl who're blind supporters of the country in its current state.

Miss Fatrat,

I thought you would of left the country already, you hate the country you live in, you think the govt is out to get you but yet, you are here getting a education(supposedly) from a university in this country.

"It dont make sense", but then again, I know you hear that very often. You are like a combination of psuedo-intellectual, conspiracy buff, anarchist, smelly hippy, semi-automatic weilding moron. 100% unsure of what you are .

We just had a 6 year Bull-market in Housing, and we are still in a 6 year Bull-market in the stock market, but according to you our country is going down the tubes. So you stick around for the great times, and we get some rough seas, and you are the first wanting to get off the boat. You are a complete douchebag.

Happy Trails Sissy Boy,,, I know N. Korea and Iran would take you willingly,,, you little Johnnie Taliban bitch.

Have a great day,

E.F.

 

[fatrat]

Quote from rs11942:


I would really like to know if you have thoroughly thought about things like the value you get living in the U.S. from things like developed infrastructure, proximity of high level health care (i.e. how far is the nearest ultrasound machine, MRI machine etc.) proportion of roads that are lit at night, mean average down time of electrical service, chlorine content of tap water, etc. These are real considerations and ones that are tough to quantify without making the mistake of moving first.

I refuse to believe there aren't foreigners out there who don't have a grasp on how to build and maintain decent infrastructure. I'd be willing to bet most third world nations have at least one pocket of livability where they have all of these things.

Beyond the infrastructure issues, i would appeal to your financial/technical sensibilities as well. Is there not a net present value to the lower likelihood of political instability of living in the U.S.? A net present value that you would be willing to pay an insurance company for insurance against armed militia taking all that you have worked for from you because at that particular moment he happens to have a larger gun than you?

I actually don't believe the US has less risk of political instability in the next 10 years. Consider the scenarios if the dollar drops toward zero. Our government has made zero steps towards reducing its debt. If the dollar goes to zero, the poor will not be able to afford basic items such as food. At that point, there really won't be anything that the government can do -- their dollar will be worthless. How can they take out more loans to distribute food to the people?

In case you think I'm joking, feel free to look up which nation in the world has the largest debt. It isn't some third world basket-case of a nation. It's the United States.

Not that all non-U.S. countries are unstable, but statistically, the risk is just a little bit higher. And us actuarial/financial types know there is a value to that slight difference. And then take that slightly lower probability of, let's call it, "general instability," across all of the various things that matter to you, and doesn't it at least add up to the taxes that you must pay in the U.S. that exceed your threshold of tolerance? know what I mean?

My belief is that most instability in the rest of the world is caused by state-sponsored factions. In Africa, it has been non-stop tyrants with ties to financing from outside governments. (As an example, it's been said that characters like Amin were propped up by Mossad.) The natural resources get looted by foreign agents, while the locals suffer. Local African economies could not naturally produce the militant tyrants that are seen there. It all has to do with what outside agent is financing misery and tyranny.

Most of the world is ignorant when it comes to these matters. They're more likely to believe racist ideas about how Africans are low-grade humans with no ability to organize. They don't realize that Africa's problems come from the fact that outsiders and outsiders' credit systems overpower any local, sovereign entities. I'd go so far as to say that if Africa used its own commodity-backed currency and abandoned foreign credit, that all of their problems would disappear within 50 years -- with the exception of perhaps HIV. The rest of the world doesn't want this, of course. They'd much rather loot resource-rich Africa.

It's only when rogue governments, tyrants, and crooks financed by western nations are involved that people suffer. If we study hard and isolate the regions where state-sponsored insanity isn't involved, the probability of finding a place where minimal intrusions can happen will go up.

 

[fearless9]

How many Posters to this thread have lived for a minimum of three years outside their principal passport country.

If you identify yourselves when you post, it will assist the OP more than he/she can realize.

 

[fatrat]

Quote from Eddiefl:

Miss Fatrat,

I thought you would of left the country already, you hate the country you live in, you think the govt is out to get you but yet, you are here getting a education(supposedly) from a university in this country.

"It dont make sense", but then again, I know you hear that very often. You are like a combination of psuedo-intellectual, conspiracy buff, anarchist, smelly hippy, semi-automatic weilding moron. 100% unsure of what you are .

We just had a 6 year Bull-market in Housing, and we are still in a 6 year Bull-market in the stock market, but according to you our country is going down the tubes. So you stick around for the great times, and we get some rough seas, and you are the first wanting to get off the boat. You are a complete douchebag.

Happy Trails Sissy Boy,,, I know N. Korea and Iran would take you willingly,,, you little Johnnie Taliban bitch.

Have a great day,

E.F.

Normally, I don't resort to flaming. However, I'm convinced you're the biggest retard on ET. I know you're a lousy trader because you can't even afford a '.' key to type out an ellipsis.

Piss off. There's no point in wasting time on those (Eddiefl) who get their milk from the cock of George W. Bush.

 

[rs11942]

Quote from fatrat:

I refuse to believe there aren't foreigners out there who don't have a grasp on how to build and maintain decent infrastructure. I'd be willing to bet most third world nations have at least one pocket of livability where they have all of these things.

I guess it boils down to your personal standards of livability.

Ever try to get a decent steak in the carribean that didn't cost 60 bucks? Want an internet connection above 10 mbps that doesn't cost over a grand a month? Does the wife want a 3d ultrasound? Do you prefer a selection in cold meds when you get the sniffles?

The laundry list of infrastructure that makes U.S. life so cushy doesn't exist in pockets...it evolves over generations around centers of concentrated wealth. That is the infrastructure I am talking about - and it doesn't exist in "pockets." Comcast either decides to service the area or it doesn't. If it can't hire techs, and doesn't see safety in their investment from bandits who will dig up their wires and melt down the copper because the area is so poor, or roads to drive their service vans along, it bails on the loser location. And then you get to pay $2599 a month for satellite internet.

More miles of roads than anywhere in the world and the commitment to maintain them have led to many more years of investment in businesses like trucking (which has brought down the average cost of the products you have access to in your local stores and increased the selection).

Investment in police forces and fire departments reassures a guy who is about to invest his life savings into opening a butcher shop so you don't have to drive 2 hours to get a decent cut of beef.

All this stuff happens over generations. You may be right that the trajectory of the U.S. isn't as much of a 45 degree angle up anymore, but even china with the 11% gdp growth rate, and 5x the labor force, will take 85 years to catch up to U.S. GDP, assuming U.S. GDP declines at 2% per annum. (yes i ran the analysis for my brother in law, who has been making the "china is better" argument lately).

I guess what I'm saying is....even if your multi-faceted, well deduced hypothesis of U.S decline (relative to the rest of the world) is correct, the numbers are too big to result in a better standard of living elsewhere within your lifetime.

 

[Tracy McGreedy]

This post is an example of isolated, ignorant state of the US. Many nations have far superior telecom infrastructure than the US.

Quote from rs11942:

I guess it boils down to your personal standards of livability.

Ever try to get a decent steak in the carribean that didn't cost 60 bucks? Want an internet connection above 10 mbps that doesn't cost over a grand a month? Does the wife want a 3d ultrasound? Do you prefer a selection in cold meds when you get the sniffles?

The laundry list of infrastructure that makes U.S. life so cushy doesn't exist in pockets...it evolves over generations around centers of concentrated wealth. That is the infrastructure I am talking about - and it doesn't exist in "pockets." Comcast either decides to service the area or it doesn't. If it can't hire techs, and doesn't see safety in their investment from bandits who will dig up their wires and melt down the copper because the area is so poor, or roads to drive their service vans along, it bails on the loser location. And then you get to pay $2599 a month for satellite internet.

More miles of roads than anywhere in the world and the commitment to maintain them have led to many more years of investment in businesses like trucking (which has brought down the average cost of the products you have access to in your local stores and increased the selection).

Investment in police forces and fire departments reassures a guy who is about to invest his life savings into opening a butcher shop so you don't have to drive 2 hours to get a decent cut of beef.

All this stuff happens over generations. You may be right that the trajectory of the U.S. isn't as much of a 45 degree angle up anymore, but even china with the 11% gdp growth rate, and 5x the labor force, will take 85 years to catch up to U.S. GDP, assuming U.S. GDP declines at 2% per annum. (yes i ran the analysis for my brother in law, who has been making the "china is better" argument lately).

I guess what I'm saying is....even if your multi-faceted, well deduced hypothesis of U.S decline (relative to the rest of the world) is correct, the numbers are too big to result in a better standard of living elsewhere within your lifetime.

 

[fearless9]

Quote from rs11942:

I guess it boils down to your personal standards of livability.

........
I guess what I'm saying is....even if your multi-faceted, well deduced hypothesis of U.S decline (relative to the rest of the world) is correct, the numbers are too big to result in a better standard of living elsewhere within your lifetime.

A fine example of why people should live abroad before they demonstrate their ignorance of the subject they write about.

 

[rs11942]

Quote from fatrat:

I actually don't believe the US has less risk of political instability in the next 10 years. Consider the scenarios if the dollar drops toward zero. Our government has made zero steps towards reducing its debt. If the dollar goes to zero, the poor will not be able to afford basic items such as food. At that point, there really won't be anything that the government can do -- their dollar will be worthless. How can they take out more loans to distribute food to the people?

In case you think I'm joking, feel free to look up which nation in the world has the largest debt. It isn't some third world basket-case of a nation. It's the United States.

See now, these types of arguments make me lose a little faith that you are making your move for the right reasons. I mean, this is just amateurish/media commentator level understanding of the f/x markets and the interrelations of trade imbalances and relative interest rates.

First off, if this were accurate, you could short the dollar with impunity and make a billion dollars...go mortgage your house, short the dollar and call me in 5 years...you'll see what I mean.

Secondly, If you're going to cite the national debt, how about recognizing that we also have a GDP that is 1/3 of the worlds GDP and that our militrary budget is the sum of the next 24 countries' combined. The U.S. dollar, and U.S. debt obligations are the world's safest investment...period. It is not a topic for debate, it just is...go look at credit spreads. It is a fact.

Lastly, since we have the biggest GDP we are the most capable of repaying our debts as a nation. And since we have the most advanced military in the world, we can always point a gun at a weaker country, that hasn't invested in defense and take their shit at will. It never has to be done, as long as everyone knows it CAN be done. If mike tyson owed you a hundred bucks...are you going to go over to collect, if he tells you he needs to "restructure" his repayment terms?

 

[rs11942]

Quote from Tracy McGreedy:

This post is an example of isolated, ignorant state of the US. Many nations have far superior telecom infrastructure than the US.

It actually doesn't show that at all. You are taking my argument out of the context of comparing the U.S. to a "third world country." Grown ups are talking here. If you're not going to add value how about going back to the peanut gallery. thanks homey.