What is a Libertarian?

[zdreg]

The idea that Piezoe can declare himself a Libertarian, yet support government bailouts, Federal Reserve market interference, etc. would be hysterical if it weren't so tragic.

that is why people with piezoe's philosophy never moved to communist russia in the old days. hypocrisy rules supreme.

 

[dbphoenix]

hypocrisy rules supreme.

Particularly in the P&R Forum.

 

[loik]

Thats the funny thing about the far left, people like Piezoe are authoritarians who want the government to dictate how every single aspect of a persons life should operate, and in their world view there is no middle ground between wanting to limit the size and scope of government, and total anarchy, in their view the government is operating at a perfectly efficient clip, and cutting 1 regulation means that you support dirty air and dirty water, in their mind it is as if there is not a single onerous rule or regulation between where we currently stand, and a "mad max" type scenario where people are raping and pillaging in the streets.

So anarchists want "raping and pillaging in the streets", as opposed to politicians/leftists/progressives/conservatives etc?

 

[loik]

markets don't self regulate. That's a myth.

Because we live in a mixed economy, have lived in mixed economies/monarchies etc?

 

[loik]

The Koch bros et al hate govt regulations. Keeping the environment clean and workers safe eats into profits and it irritates them.

So the consumers boycott their products, workers boycott their companies, people in general provide alternative/better products to run the Kochs out of business?

Just like parents irritate their kids when they set limits. The financial sector feels the same way about it and would rather run wild and free..... with the economy at their disposal. Which they have been known to do.

So there are many libertarians on Wall Street, or do they prefer having the government run the economy on their behalf?

So they have found this thing called Libertarianism which has some popular appeal. Like free range chickens or non-GMO food. It has liberty in it and who could be against such a thing? Even better, it professes that govt is mostly bad. Like those parents with the curfew. No one likes curfews.

Why does good(government) require violence?

The citizens also like this liberty and don't like being told what to do. They want to be like free range teenagers. They also hate being forced to give away some of their money to those lazy minority types who watch their kids sell crack. That really gets their goat.

So Koch Industries and the people that hate giving their money to lazy crack dealers have something in common. They don't see much good in the govt. Their parents are stifling their lives and they want to be free and full of liberty and stuff. Of course this works to Koch Ind. advantage.

And their parents are all-knowing, unselfish, infallible?

All they need do is hitch their wagon to this anti-curfew movement and suddenly they have all these liberty loving citizens helping them in their quest to be free of those pesky regulations that help insure the safety of the public.

How is that working out?

So that's what the Koch bros. did, basically bankrolling the Tea Party/Libertarian movement. They will spending almost a billion dollars on this next election. You know, for "liberty".

And no one spends any money on other politicval ideologies/-parties?

So basically the term "Libertarian" has been co opted, bastardized, redefined and perverted so much that it now means almost anything as long as less govt is involved.

Some truth in that.

As an example of this is this paragraph from wiki about it....

Although some present-day libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[3] such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources, others, notably libertarian socialists,[4] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management.[5][6] While minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists propose to completely eliminate the state.

So that clears that up huh?

 

[loik]

Freedom occurs when you have fair and transparent elections.
Haven't had that in a while, huh?

What are fair and transparent elections?

 

[loik]

Freedom occurs when your elected representatives make and enact laws; not some dopey, paid for judge, and not those lifetime appointed dopes on the Supreme Court.

Freedom occurs when your elected representatives make and enact laws on behalf of special interest groups? Or perhaps the elected officials are all-knowing, unselfish, infallible etc, and does infact know what the common good entails?

 

[loik]

One person, one vote.
PERIOD.

And then the government would no longer rob Peter to pay Paul?

 

[jem]

the reason there are so many people declaring themselves libertarian is not because of the Koch brothers... its because the bastard sellout republicans all claim to be conservative but vote like they are chamber of congress (read crony) democrats. Bushes/Rove,McCain, Boehner McConnnell and a few other sobs and they have destroyed the name.

The majority of the voters demand the following things... but we can't get our treasonous politicians to vote our agenda once they are elected.

We demand lower taxes... and smaller more govt and more freedom.
the guy how knocked out Kantor... Brat... had it right. Rule of law, more freedom lower taxes.

For lack of a more precise name... we hanging out in the libertarian tent.

 

[piezoe]

Because we live in a mixed economy, have lived in mixed economies/monarchies etc?

I did not understand your point. All modern industrialized economies are "mixed economies". Self-regulation, i.e., laissez faire, can work only in small economic microcosms, and even there, probably not for long. The reason regulation exists is because self-regulation doesn't. If it did, there would be no need for regulation. The battle then is between good regulation and bad, not between regulation and no regulation.